3 ms·

Don't people use NFS instead of Fuse now? I'd assume it would have much better performance than webdav and it should handle a bunch of the issues around writes`

blagie 3y ago
I am moving outside of my zone of expertise, but when I last looked (decades ago), systems like NSF assumed a filesystem backing store and thinks about things like byte ranges. There are a lot of operations which file systems support which work very poorly when this is not true, such as seeks, memory-mapped files, etc. If I want the 50,004,123,121th byte of a file from a disk, that's very fast. If I want the same for a virtual object from an HTTP server, object store, virtual table, etc. it literally involves creating the whole object, and stepping through it byte-by-byte until I get there. If the next request is doing the same 1k ahead, on a disk, that's probably in cache, and if not, I can get there quickly. If this was a SQL query, I probably need to redo the whole thing. You get a natural explosion from O(1) to O(n) in many common cases, and for something like a complex SQL query, it can be much, much worse.
- m-hilgendorf 3y ago
  NFSv4 is stateful, and while it's true that the server has to support stateless reads for bad clients, most clients are ok with keeping the state ids that are returned after an open. Whether you have to step through the object byte-by-byte isn't inherent to the protocol, it depends on how you've stored the data.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
m-hilgendorf 3y ago
I've implemented both in the last 6 months and the only reason I would expect anyone to use NFS over FUSE is for MacOS without macfuse/fuse-t. fuse-t is a cool project that provides (iirc) the high level fuse interface (libfuse) via NFS on MacOS. Compare to macfuse, which implements the low level interface (/dev/fuse) via a kext. FUSE is much, much easier to work with. The protocol (even v4) should also be less chatty, and if performance is your goal there are projects like ExtFuse that can move some caching into the kernel via eBPF which I don't think would be possible with NFS. If you poke around other user space file systems (sshfs, cephfs, objectivefs, etc) they're all FUSE.
vidarh 3y ago
I can implement a basic Fuse filesystem in a handful of lines of code in several languages. I'm not aware of any libraries that makes it equally simple to write an NFS server.

blagie 3y ago

I am moving outside of my zone of expertise, but when I last looked (decades ago), systems like NSF assumed a filesystem backing store and thinks about things like byte ranges. There are a lot of operations which file systems support which work very poorly when this is not true, such as seeks, memory-mapped files, etc. If I want the 50,004,123,121th byte of a file from a disk, that's very fast. If I want the same for a virtual object from an HTTP server, object store, virtual table, etc. it literally involves creating the whole object, and stepping through it byte-by-byte until I get there. If the next request is doing the same 1k ahead, on a disk, that's probably in cache, and if not, I can get there quickly. If this was a SQL query, I probably need to redo the whole thing. You get a natural explosion from O(1) to O(n) in many common cases, and for something like a complex SQL query, it can be much, much worse.

m-hilgendorf 3y ago
NFSv4 is stateful, and while it's true that the server has to support stateless reads for bad clients, most clients are ok with keeping the state ids that are returned after an open. Whether you have to step through the object byte-by-byte isn't inherent to the protocol, it depends on how you've stored the data.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

m-hilgendorf 3y ago

I've implemented both in the last 6 months and the only reason I would expect anyone to use NFS over FUSE is for MacOS without macfuse/fuse-t. fuse-t is a cool project that provides (iirc) the high level fuse interface (libfuse) via NFS on MacOS. Compare to macfuse, which implements the low level interface (/dev/fuse) via a kext. FUSE is much, much easier to work with. The protocol (even v4) should also be less chatty, and if performance is your goal there are projects like ExtFuse that can move some caching into the kernel via eBPF which I don't think would be possible with NFS. If you poke around other user space file systems (sshfs, cephfs, objectivefs, etc) they're all FUSE.

vidarh 3y ago

I can implement a basic Fuse filesystem in a handful of lines of code in several languages. I'm not aware of any libraries that makes it equally simple to write an NFS server.