5 ms·

The game as shipped on disc will generally already be out of date on launch day, with day 1 updates waiting for download. Over time these have started to compri

The game as shipped on disc will generally already be out of date on launch day, with day 1 updates waiting for download. Over time these have started to comprise the bulk of the game itself. These days it makes no sense to actually copy anything off the disc when you'll have to redownload the entire (updated) build off Sony's servers. These might be the last consoles that ever have disc support.

behringer 3y ago
That's too bad. No disc equals no buy. Own or die.
- Hamuko 3y ago
  I just switched over to PC gaming since I trust Valve a lot more than I trust Microsoft, Nintendo or Sony. My Steam account is 18 years old and I can still download my earliest purchase from 2005.
  - _cenw 3y ago
    Valve isn't really different, PC gaming is different. Almost all games are available via piracy, no matter if Valve still offers a game. This includes games like the recently unlisted Spec Ops The Line, where the barriers are entirely legal. Xbox people have said quite openly that the releasing everything on PC is their game preservation strategy a few times.
  - PufPufPuf 3y ago
    There are even better stores in this regard, like GOG or Itch.io. With those, you can just download the DRM-free installers which will work even if the store goes bankrupt tomorrow. Surprisingly many games are available, even some AAAs, not just indie stuff.
    - ekianjo 3y ago
      yes but GOG has recently started to not respect the DRM free aspects by accepting games that have restricted online multiplayer modes. Still they are better than most other stores.
      - dangus 3y ago
        I don’t think they ever had a requirement that every game have no DRM, and I also think that online games are obviously a temporary experience whose very nature isn’t compatible with the idea of DRM-free. If they can’t ban players and bots they won’t survive. IMO the paranoid focus way too much on DRM.
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
  - dangus 3y ago
    And you can still purchase new games for PS3 on the console. The only thing you have to do is fund the account elsewhere since Sony doesn’t want to support payment security on the PS3.
    - Hamuko 3y ago
      Only because there was a big backlash. Sony tried to close the PS3 and Vita stores back in 2021 but reversed course.
      - dangus 3y ago
        Even if the backlash and reversal wasn’t there, you’d still be able to play your purchased games and I believe they were going to keep redownloading functional.
  - behringer 3y ago
    Use GOG when you can, it's DRM free (mostly).
    - Hamuko 3y ago
      You can get DRM-free games on Steam too. For example Cyberpunk 2077 on Steam is DRM free.
- dangus 3y ago
  I don’t look at these things in such a black and white way. Gaming is one of the cheapest hobbies one can have. A $70 AAA game costs less than one mediocre dinner out. And I don’t even personally buy any games at that full price, I try to buy games that cost less than a Starbucks run. In my entire nearly 20 years gaming on Steam I’ve only spent something like $4,000 on PC gaming software. Steam tells me this in an account report. That’s less than the average American spends on their car in just one year - for a depreciating asset that is eventually worthless. The percentage of games that have been “revoked” has been minimal. I am aware of some delisted games like a particular multiplayer-only tech demo-ish title that I enjoyed (Shattered Horizon). My old Nintendo eShop games on previous consoles can’t be redownloaded but they can still be backed up and played and I’ve always received ample advanced notice. To me, “own or die” is quite dramatic and would be overbearing on my hobby. I recognize that all these experiences are temporary. I can’t go back in time and play Skyrim like it’s the first time I played it. That experience has depreciated. If I go back and play a game like Red Steel it will be pointless because the game is better at representing a point in time in video game development rather than a game that is worth playing in 2024. Don’t be surprised if the next consoles ditch discs entirely, but my advice to any gamer is to not let that line in the sand stop them from enjoying what they enjoy. Because this hobby is cheaper than basically anything else you can do in real life that is far more ephemeral.
  - LtWorf 3y ago
    > A $70 AAA game costs less than one mediocre dinner out Either in USA the cost of life is very strange, or you are making up numbers. At 70$ per person in expensive western europe it would be a VERY VERY FANCY restaurant. Also eating isn't a hobby. You can buy a decent guitar for 500€ and use it for the next 50 years. Which can't be done with games you don't own since they disappear.
    - acomjean 3y ago
      For 2 people $70 is pretty middle of the road restaurant in 2024. ($35 a piece) I went somewhere (slightly) fancy and it was slightly over $100 for 2 people with drinks. I live in an expensive area though (around Boston) I think in cost per hour games are a great value if that 70$ game holds your attention for 20+ hours. I suspect 500 Euro gets a pretty great guitar. I guess you spend money where it’s important too you.
- hn92726819 3y ago
  > No disc equals no buy. Own or die. You seem to imply here that "disk=buy", but that's not even remotely true anymore. I don't know anything about this game, but it seems like this is yet another one that doesn't work offline [1]. So having the disk still doesn't mean you own it. There are still games where disk=own of course, but using that as your metric of ownership would be incorrect. 1: https://old.reddit.com/r/granturismo/comments/110chtg/can_i_play_gt7_offline/ https://old.reddit.com/r/granturismo/comments/110chtg/can_i_...
kiicia 3y ago
It also depends on if patch is incremental or it replaces existing data in bulk
lostruinsofraku 3y ago
My issue is games are going all of the above and they are not any more fun than the older ones. No new gameplay features that require the above either. What about the graphics? None of this requires you to ship incomplete and out of date products to the customer. People talk like this type of behavior is necessary and required to ship a game.

behringer 3y ago

That's too bad. No disc equals no buy. Own or die.

Hamuko 3y ago
I just switched over to PC gaming since I trust Valve a lot more than I trust Microsoft, Nintendo or Sony. My Steam account is 18 years old and I can still download my earliest purchase from 2005.
- _cenw 3y ago
  Valve isn't really different, PC gaming is different. Almost all games are available via piracy, no matter if Valve still offers a game. This includes games like the recently unlisted Spec Ops The Line, where the barriers are entirely legal. Xbox people have said quite openly that the releasing everything on PC is their game preservation strategy a few times.
- PufPufPuf 3y ago
  There are even better stores in this regard, like GOG or Itch.io. With those, you can just download the DRM-free installers which will work even if the store goes bankrupt tomorrow. Surprisingly many games are available, even some AAAs, not just indie stuff.
  - ekianjo 3y ago
    yes but GOG has recently started to not respect the DRM free aspects by accepting games that have restricted online multiplayer modes. Still they are better than most other stores.
    - dangus 3y ago
      I don’t think they ever had a requirement that every game have no DRM, and I also think that online games are obviously a temporary experience whose very nature isn’t compatible with the idea of DRM-free. If they can’t ban players and bots they won’t survive. IMO the paranoid focus way too much on DRM.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
- dangus 3y ago
  And you can still purchase new games for PS3 on the console. The only thing you have to do is fund the account elsewhere since Sony doesn’t want to support payment security on the PS3.
  - Hamuko 3y ago
    Only because there was a big backlash. Sony tried to close the PS3 and Vita stores back in 2021 but reversed course.
    - dangus 3y ago
      Even if the backlash and reversal wasn’t there, you’d still be able to play your purchased games and I believe they were going to keep redownloading functional.
- behringer 3y ago
  Use GOG when you can, it's DRM free (mostly).
  - Hamuko 3y ago
    You can get DRM-free games on Steam too. For example Cyberpunk 2077 on Steam is DRM free.
dangus 3y ago
I don’t look at these things in such a black and white way. Gaming is one of the cheapest hobbies one can have. A $70 AAA game costs less than one mediocre dinner out. And I don’t even personally buy any games at that full price, I try to buy games that cost less than a Starbucks run. In my entire nearly 20 years gaming on Steam I’ve only spent something like $4,000 on PC gaming software. Steam tells me this in an account report. That’s less than the average American spends on their car in just one year - for a depreciating asset that is eventually worthless. The percentage of games that have been “revoked” has been minimal. I am aware of some delisted games like a particular multiplayer-only tech demo-ish title that I enjoyed (Shattered Horizon). My old Nintendo eShop games on previous consoles can’t be redownloaded but they can still be backed up and played and I’ve always received ample advanced notice. To me, “own or die” is quite dramatic and would be overbearing on my hobby. I recognize that all these experiences are temporary. I can’t go back in time and play Skyrim like it’s the first time I played it. That experience has depreciated. If I go back and play a game like Red Steel it will be pointless because the game is better at representing a point in time in video game development rather than a game that is worth playing in 2024. Don’t be surprised if the next consoles ditch discs entirely, but my advice to any gamer is to not let that line in the sand stop them from enjoying what they enjoy. Because this hobby is cheaper than basically anything else you can do in real life that is far more ephemeral.
- LtWorf 3y ago
  > A $70 AAA game costs less than one mediocre dinner out Either in USA the cost of life is very strange, or you are making up numbers. At 70$ per person in expensive western europe it would be a VERY VERY FANCY restaurant. Also eating isn't a hobby. You can buy a decent guitar for 500€ and use it for the next 50 years. Which can't be done with games you don't own since they disappear.
  - acomjean 3y ago
    For 2 people $70 is pretty middle of the road restaurant in 2024. ($35 a piece) I went somewhere (slightly) fancy and it was slightly over $100 for 2 people with drinks. I live in an expensive area though (around Boston) I think in cost per hour games are a great value if that 70$ game holds your attention for 20+ hours. I suspect 500 Euro gets a pretty great guitar. I guess you spend money where it’s important too you.
hn92726819 3y ago
> No disc equals no buy. Own or die. You seem to imply here that "disk=buy", but that's not even remotely true anymore. I don't know anything about this game, but it seems like this is yet another one that doesn't work offline [1]. So having the disk still doesn't mean you own it. There are still games where disk=own of course, but using that as your metric of ownership would be incorrect. 1: https://old.reddit.com/r/granturismo/comments/110chtg/can_i_play_gt7_offline/ https://old.reddit.com/r/granturismo/comments/110chtg/can_i_...

kiicia 3y ago

It also depends on if patch is incremental or it replaces existing data in bulk

lostruinsofraku 3y ago

My issue is games are going all of the above and they are not any more fun than the older ones. No new gameplay features that require the above either. What about the graphics? None of this requires you to ship incomplete and out of date products to the customer. People talk like this type of behavior is necessary and required to ship a game.