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> But on the international stage China has been one of the best actors we have ... What are the examples of this you're thinking of?

roenxi 3y ago
If you go through the major wars at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ongoing_armed_conflicts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ongoing_armed_conflict... and look at the wiki pages for each of them the name "China" is conspicuously absent from the little info boxes on the right. That is more than can be said for the US, NATO, African nations and Middle Easterners. It is nice having a region of the world where the major powers in the area believe in peace. Then even in the "Wars" section they have a limited showing give their relative economic power. I see them getting involved against Boko Haram and an the Ethiopia civil conflict as an arms supplier.
- inglor_cz 3y ago
  China has a long tradition of being self-centered and not really caring what is happening beyond the borders of the Celestial Kingdom. Barbarians live there, who cares about the barbarians. It is striking to me how the current development in Xi's realm mirrors previous closing-offs of China. The Belt and Road initiative is being abandoned (and who knows what happened to the Party eunuchs most involved), the government doesn't even try to reassure foreign investors and may be silently happy about the resulting outflow of foreign investments. During the Covid pandemics, foreigners were randomly bullied (anal tests on arrival etc.) to make them stay away. Isolationism of this sort tends to result in a relatively benign foreign policy, stemming from disinterest. That doesn't say you much about the government itself, though. The government may well be disappearing its critics into gulags by the thousands, and you will never know.
- justinclift 3y ago
  > It is nice having a region of the world where the major powers in the area believe in peace. Is that excluding the present day China's behaviour? I mean, don't they have border disagreements and sometimes clashes with their bordering countries? Their attitude towards Hong Kong and Taiwan are both pretty fucked up, to say the least. For the water based part of their border, they're famously pulling transparently dumb shit with the nearby nations: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_China_Sea#Territorial_claims https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_China_Sea#Territorial_cl... * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_disputes_in_the_South_China_Sea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_disputes_in_the_So...
  - roenxi 3y ago
    None of those things are as bad as a war though. If I had a choice of being in Hong Kong or the Gaza strip; I'd rather take Hong Kong. It is a bit fucked up, but it could be a lot worse.
    - justinclift 3y ago
      That's a fair point, but it still shows they're a long way from being a good actor on the international stage. :(

roenxi 3y ago

If you go through the major wars at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ongoing_armed_conflicts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ongoing_armed_conflict... and look at the wiki pages for each of them the name "China" is conspicuously absent from the little info boxes on the right. That is more than can be said for the US, NATO, African nations and Middle Easterners. It is nice having a region of the world where the major powers in the area believe in peace. Then even in the "Wars" section they have a limited showing give their relative economic power. I see them getting involved against Boko Haram and an the Ethiopia civil conflict as an arms supplier.

inglor_cz 3y ago
China has a long tradition of being self-centered and not really caring what is happening beyond the borders of the Celestial Kingdom. Barbarians live there, who cares about the barbarians. It is striking to me how the current development in Xi's realm mirrors previous closing-offs of China. The Belt and Road initiative is being abandoned (and who knows what happened to the Party eunuchs most involved), the government doesn't even try to reassure foreign investors and may be silently happy about the resulting outflow of foreign investments. During the Covid pandemics, foreigners were randomly bullied (anal tests on arrival etc.) to make them stay away. Isolationism of this sort tends to result in a relatively benign foreign policy, stemming from disinterest. That doesn't say you much about the government itself, though. The government may well be disappearing its critics into gulags by the thousands, and you will never know.
justinclift 3y ago
> It is nice having a region of the world where the major powers in the area believe in peace. Is that excluding the present day China's behaviour? I mean, don't they have border disagreements and sometimes clashes with their bordering countries? Their attitude towards Hong Kong and Taiwan are both pretty fucked up, to say the least. For the water based part of their border, they're famously pulling transparently dumb shit with the nearby nations: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_China_Sea#Territorial_claims https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_China_Sea#Territorial_cl... * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_disputes_in_the_South_China_Sea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_disputes_in_the_So...
- roenxi 3y ago
  None of those things are as bad as a war though. If I had a choice of being in Hong Kong or the Gaza strip; I'd rather take Hong Kong. It is a bit fucked up, but it could be a lot worse.
  - justinclift 3y ago
    That's a fair point, but it still shows they're a long way from being a good actor on the international stage. :(