6 ms·

Why You're Still Single (2023)

26 points by walterbell 3y ago

oldpersonintx 3y ago
[dead]
earlone 3y ago
[flagged]
- spiderfarmer 3y ago
  If men cannot admit a fault without asking “but what about”, then they are, in fact, at fault even more. It only shows how insecure and resentful they are. Some very unattractive traits.
  - earlone 3y ago
    Isn't it the same for women ?
    - wiseowise 3y ago
      You’ve just replied with “what about” to a comment that pointed out “what about”.
      - earlone 3y ago
        So why would my "what about" be less relevant ?
        account-5 3y ago
        It's not less relevant, it's just not the point.
        earlone 3y ago
        I think it is to the point tbh.
        spiderfarmer 3y ago
        Well, in fact, it’s not.
        wiseowise 3y ago
        Because if your only argument is “what about” then it’s not an argument. You’re just diverting original discussion.
        earlone 3y ago
        Why is it bad to divert the original discussion in a newly dedicated thread ?
        spiderfarmer 3y ago
        Read the rules and make an effort to comprehend them.
        earlone 3y ago
        Indeed it says "don't be snarky" first line for comments. I'm not the one being snarky, unless proven otherwise.
    - spiderfarmer 3y ago
      Thanks for proving my point.
      - earlone 3y ago
        I appreciate your perspective, but I'm not entirely convinced that this proves anything. We seem to have differing opinions on this matter.
        spiderfarmer 3y ago
        Just know that your opinions make you even more unattractive. It will chase all women away and cause a feedback loop that can only result in you becoming a very unhappy extremist. Don’t be blind and apathetic. Expand your views. Live a little.
        earlone 3y ago
        Not sure why you consider me as single without life. While I keep my dating life for myself, I have girlfriends who went through divorce and painful things I carefully avoided while I had the best experiences I could dream about. And I know a good divorce lawyer who just bought his 3rd lamborghini thanks to people like you. I see you still live in the land of rainbows and unicorns.
        spiderfarmer 3y ago
        [flagged]
- watwut 3y ago
  The article goes at length about dating apps. And the article contains quite a lot about women.
- stavros 3y ago
  > Guys nowadays work 5 times harder to get a woman 20 times shittier than their grandfather got 50 years ago This makes no sense at all. How would this even happen, when there's roughly one woman for every man?
  - earlone 3y ago
    You'd be surprised to know the answer...
    - stavros 3y ago
      I have a feeling I won't be surprised at all at how little sense it'll make.
  - livinginfear 3y ago
    Social customs surrounding sex inside marriage, or even sex inside a relationship have changed over time. Successful men have sexual access to more than one woman (If that's what they want). Sure, eventually people settle down and pair off, but before that happens the market is completely different.
    - stavros 3y ago
      I really doubt that a small group of men now hoards 70% of the women.
      - livinginfear 3y ago
        No one hoards women. If the top 10% of men had sexual access to more than one woman at a time, without committing to any of them in a monogamous relationship, that alone would be enough to change the dating landscape significantly. Assuming that the women involved weren't in a different relationship at the time.
        stavros 3y ago
        Exactly, you're assuming that the man "had sexual access to more than one woman at a time", whereas the women were exclusive to that man. That's basically the definition of hoarding.
- wiseowise 3y ago
  > Guys nowadays work 5 times harder to get a woman 20 times shittier than their grandfather got 50 years ago That’s survivorship bias. You know your grandfather got great woman, because he already did. All of this is pure luck, you can increase your chances by exposing yourself to more opportunities to meet more women, but it’s not a guarantee that you’ll get your dream girlfriend.
  - earlone 3y ago
    Indeed.
- almatabata 3y ago
  > It says that men suck at relationships I think you are hyper focusing on one very small paragraph title. The same paragraph labels it as a theory: "A theory that the core problem is that most men are terrible in relationships even when they are superficially fine, women learn this, and thus men whose selling point is their stability cannot get dates." Most of the article I find is mostly gender neutral. It also contradicts the usual claim that women/men will have to go on dates with an endless amount of losers: "There is the stereotype of the person (usually but not always a woman) who goes on dates constantly, finding an endless string of losers. The data here suggests that this essentially is not a thing, or that if you do that it works." There are definitely articles blaming everything on men but this article is not one of those.
  - earlone 3y ago
    Yes agree, but it's much more fun to debate on this topic in particular :)
ianbutler 3y ago
Hi that's me, not even trying, or at least that was me until about a month ago. I had a relationship that affected me horribly in college, that took me 2 years to get over. Whatever you're thinking of, it was worse, and totally ruined my trust in people. Then I was like eh, fuck this shit because I was in early career and couldn't afford to get mentally messed up again like that. So that was another two years. Cue Covid where I was busy trying to get a startup off the ground and dealing with the simultaneous end of the world and then financially recovering from not getting said startup off the ground. Then, I got into my groove again and now I'm doing superbly. In fact I am probably only really ready and able to date now. So we're talking 2016-2024, 8 years of singleness. I was (honestly still could be) very content being single, it's pretty great. I do whatever I want, whenever I want. I have a few close friends for my support and a few more social acquaintances I do stuff with. I make a lot of money for a 29 year old, I have hobbies and workout regularly. Honestly, as a person I feel pretty complete. I don't strongly feel like I need another person to complete me, but I do want another person in my life now. I suspect a lot of people have just had a lot of heavy shit going on for the last bit of time, and like, the responsible thing isn't to throw your heavy shit onto someone else. Aside from that it takes a lot of energy, focus and caring to grow a relationship and like that's really hard to do when you're busy picking yourself up off the floor or just trying to stay treading water. Anyway, fast forward to the current dating scene. It kind of blows. Online dating is entirely asymmetric for guys, and interactions are low quality. I get like 3-5 matches a week which as I hear it is a pretty good rate for a guy. Of those matches the quality of conversation is non-existant. "You're cute, let's grab coffee." is what I've been defaulting to now because out of 20-25 matches in the last month I've had literally one engaging conversation. I totally understand why people self select out of that nonsense. I'm just starting to go to events now, because I have no issue walking up to someone and asking them out and at least this article shows that should be a way more sane way to date.
- cvhashim04 3y ago
  Can you tap into network of friends or family to meet new people?
  - earlone 3y ago
account-5 3y ago
I definitely don't have 57 to 73 minutes to read this article. If I was single I still wouldn't.
walterbell 3y ago
Alternate timeline of dating apps? > The full right way, of course, would be a revival of OKCupid. > Here we have a product that me and essentially everyone else who has ever heard of it says was insanely great. If you put in the time on the questions, which was inherently fun, the people who match highly with you are almost always extraordinarily good matches, with very good response rates. My initial response rate was something absurd, and when I got unprompted inquiries they were great. Rather than play a numbers game, I picked my spots and fully customized my messages, and it paid off. Positive experiences abound. Everyone constantly complains that it is gone. > So, what if we simply created it again, the way it used to be? Do not reinvent the wheel, unless the wheel is lost, in which case by all means go reinvent it, people need wheels.
- throwaway77384 3y ago
  I was one of those people who got into online dating just at the transition from "Only weirdo losers do online dating" -> "The only way to meet anyone is online dating". So for about two years, I was there, on OKC as sooooo many brand new people discovered it, in a huge city, in my mid-twenties. It was an incredible time. I met so, so many interesting people, who were so similar to me. I couldn't believe it. It was all free, too. No lasting relationships ever came from it. I met my partner of 10 years at work eventually. I've never been on Tinder or any other online dating platform, but it sounds like the industry (it is now an industry...) has gone through the same cycle of VC-driven monetisation, removing all incentive for the platform to function correctly in the user's interest, much like any big platform nowadays. So, I guess we'll need some kind of online dating fediverse to fix this. I'd recommend copying exactly how OKC worked. It was the best approach I've ever seen. But also the only one ;)
  - livinginfear 3y ago
    > removing all incentive for the platform to function correctly in the user's interest, much like any big platform nowadays. People keep saying this, but it's just not true. Tinder does function in many people's interest. I had a lot of success using Tinder, and eventually met my wife on there. People keep implying there's some kind of hidden algorithm at play that somehow pairs you up with people who are "Okay, but not great" to keep you hooked on the app. How the hell would it manage such an amazing feat?
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
Dalewyn 3y ago
Speaking as a guy who doesn't want a relationship, every single instance of someone or something asking me to marry (eg: this article) only makes my conviction to refuse even harder. I can't wait until I am naturally ejected out from the mating market I never even wanted to participate in.
- livinginfear 3y ago
  Have you considered talking to a therapist about this?
  - Dalewyn 3y ago
    No.[1] Also, I do not appreciate the insinuation that I might be mentally ill. What is it with that, anyway? My conviction is the result of thorough deliberation; if anything, attempts at handwaving such as yours especially makes my conviction ever harder. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39343631 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39343631
    - glimshe 3y ago
      Biologically speaking, the very reason of our existence is to make descendants, or contribute to society so others can make descendants, with intelligence being an evolutionary trait to increase the likelihood of our species surviving. Now, you are free to go against our biological imperative, but such stance can be considered a mental health problem in the sense that "mental health" exists for the very survival of the species. One problem in your writeup is that it appears that you believe others should take your approach to living ("Life is a hellhole" instead of "My life is a hellhole"), which would lead to our species' extinction. Yes, life can be very tough, and long stretches of it can have more negatives than positives, but humanity has developed a wide range of tools to deal with that (psychotherapy, religion, support groups, community) so we can be relatively healthy and happy in the long run.
      - Dalewyn 3y ago
        >survival of the species Whether I make kids or not has absolutely no practical bearing upon the survival of the species. In fact, we're having overpopulation problems. The species will survive regardless of my choice. (I admit I still won't have kids if I along with a mate were the last remaining homo sapiens, I'm just not interested and the planet will keep spinning.) I can also contribute to survival of the species by helping others' kids I come across during my life. Counterintuitively, my choice to end my bloodline can also improve survival of the species because it's less mouths waging war down the line. >One problem in your writeup is that it appears that you believe others should take your approach to living I sincerely couldn't care less what others do in their bedrooms because it is none of my business, I already stated as such in another comment under the thread I linked.
livinginfear 3y ago
Lots of tech people seem to dislike Tinder. I want to present an argument in favour of the 'swipe and match' model: If your personality is 'stronger' than your appearance, in terms of attracting a partner, this model is actually highly optimal. Think of optimising a database query to maximise selectivity: You want to narrow the search space as quickly as possible. If finding a partner who is physically attracted to you is hard, then everyone who actually does match with you has cleared that hurdle. Lots of tech people seem to idealise OkCupid, but it's really a better use of your effort to swipe/match than sending personalised messages to many people on OkCupid, only for a large amount of recipients to reject you on account of your appearance.
slily 3y ago
Lack of opportunities for casual social interactions has got to be a killer for the introverted who work in sausage-fest industries, especially remote workers. If you can find satisfaction elsewhere, the increasingly high hurdle of initiating a relationship in this day and age no longer feels worth it. It comes down to a cost-benefit analysis, not a binary decision about wanting or not wanting a relationship.
Iamstillsingle 3y ago
Did not read the article in any great detail, just wanted to post my anecdote: I am a young male, far ahead of the curve career wise compared to my peers while also going for a bachelor in an equally fruitful subject. I have the height of a woman and the body of one too, although my face is not bad. I have passable social skills and have low inhibition when talking to people in general. I am somewhat exotic, not ethnically but mentally, as I grew up entirely in the west, and am now in the east. In the past 6 months I have been working on a bet with my "local" male friends to get a girlfriend, in that time span I have talked to over 200 "local" girls, pretty much whenever I have a break between sleep, work, and school I am on the lookout for opportunity. I talk to them on campus, on public transport, on weekends when I go out, when I engage in sports, when I am studying, and when I eat. Pretty much the only time I don't is when I am sleeping, because even work and school is not so important to me. Of these 200 or so girls, I would have no chemistry with 90% of them, not to say the attempt was poor or that I did not make a nice acquaintance, it was just not suitable to go further. Of the remaining 10%, 9% would turn me down when I ask for there number or a date, I would fail some test, I would pussy out, or it just was not meant to be. What struck me the most was how much they would tell me I was being "too nice" with the specific words I would use. Many would say it as though I was supposed to immediately pick up on the signal and talk to them worse. Even after explaining to them that my diction was only incidental, and I was not attempting to respect them intentionally, it would still turn them off entirely. The remaining 1% would likewise be turned off and plead with me, but they were in truth so ugly and/or desperate that they could live with it. In comparison, in the same period of time I talked to 4 or so religiously/culturally incompatible girls. I won't go into details because it will go against the site guidelines, but I would say some pretty horrible things to them, I would make use of all of my niche religious/cultural/geographic/historical "knowledge" to argue and belittle they're core values (Or atleast those of their fathers), dismiss them, act as though I am better then them, lie and cheat them, and just generally treat them as though they are below me. Out of the 4, one would become a nice acqauintance, one would become a good friend and help me out down the line, one would go out on a date with me, and the final one would give me her number, set up a date, and so on. The last one was some wannabe instagram model way out of my league, she outright invited me on a date (Even then I managed to decline and played it cool, instead invited her to my own date afterwards). Most of all it seemed like my success scaled proportionally with my arrogance. So to answer the original question, I am still single because I was taught and truly believe in the standard "western" or "romantic" ideal, and I am still hesitant to give up on it in the face of absolute failure.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
roenxi 3y ago
I'm not sure if the article author sees it as in scope, but an obvious problem here is the paradox of choice and the high absolute bar to getting a date. We're seeing numbers in the range of 100s of attempts to start expecting to find a partner. That seems high. If we look back at a hypothetical 1900s village, I don't think people necessarily had 100 partners to choose from. It'd be things like "in the local church group, I can pick between these 10 people and I have a very clear understanding of my relative social rank". The decisions made themselves, a lot of people had so-so relationships and that was acceptable because the alternative was worse. This article is suggesting a much, much higher bar to being in the game than that. A hypothetical dude needs to invest hours solely in finding dates, has to master app use, promotional skills, meet unclear shifting bars and have a good understanding of what signals in the discourse to glom on to and which to ignore as counterproductive. Then multiply that by hundred(s). Some grasp of statistics is recommended. There is a real chance of investing years into a relationship and just having it collapse because a better alternative comes along. Dating has probably gotten harder. That is before even looking at the changing economics of what a relationship is.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
LouisSayers 3y ago
As someone that's been on a good number of dates and had reasonable success, something I've thought about in retrospect: Date yourself and invite others along. Find things YOU want to do / go to places you'd like to go, schedule it in your calendar and invite potential mates along or join a group of others e.g. a hiking group. It's also a marathon, not a sprint, and dating is like Leetcode, the more you do it the better you get over time. Try different things, try the apps, speed dating, grab a drink at a hotel bar, join groups of people, build a network, pay for a coach... The main thing is you try things and learn. Yes it's effort, yes it costs money, yes you may need to go to the gym and work on yourself, but try to enjoy the process. Also, don't subscribe to limiting beliefs and don't go marrying the first person you meet just because you think you can't meet anyone else. There are literally millions of people out there, and there are plenty of bald short guys that do just fine. Lastly, it's totally OK to have standards - go for what you want and adjust and learn, and not everyone you like is going to reciprocate. The main thing is that you make an effort.

26 points by walterbell 3y ago

oldpersonintx 3y ago

[dead]

earlone 3y ago

[flagged]

spiderfarmer 3y ago
If men cannot admit a fault without asking “but what about”, then they are, in fact, at fault even more. It only shows how insecure and resentful they are. Some very unattractive traits.
- earlone 3y ago
  Isn't it the same for women ?
  - wiseowise 3y ago
    You’ve just replied with “what about” to a comment that pointed out “what about”.
    - earlone 3y ago
      So why would my "what about" be less relevant ?
      - account-5 3y ago
        It's not less relevant, it's just not the point.
        earlone 3y ago
        I think it is to the point tbh.
        spiderfarmer 3y ago
        Well, in fact, it’s not.
      - wiseowise 3y ago
        Because if your only argument is “what about” then it’s not an argument. You’re just diverting original discussion.
        earlone 3y ago
        Why is it bad to divert the original discussion in a newly dedicated thread ?
        spiderfarmer 3y ago
        Read the rules and make an effort to comprehend them.
        earlone 3y ago
        Indeed it says "don't be snarky" first line for comments. I'm not the one being snarky, unless proven otherwise.
  - spiderfarmer 3y ago
    Thanks for proving my point.
    - earlone 3y ago
      I appreciate your perspective, but I'm not entirely convinced that this proves anything. We seem to have differing opinions on this matter.
      - spiderfarmer 3y ago
        Just know that your opinions make you even more unattractive. It will chase all women away and cause a feedback loop that can only result in you becoming a very unhappy extremist. Don’t be blind and apathetic. Expand your views. Live a little.
        earlone 3y ago
        Not sure why you consider me as single without life. While I keep my dating life for myself, I have girlfriends who went through divorce and painful things I carefully avoided while I had the best experiences I could dream about. And I know a good divorce lawyer who just bought his 3rd lamborghini thanks to people like you. I see you still live in the land of rainbows and unicorns.
        spiderfarmer 3y ago
        [flagged]
watwut 3y ago
The article goes at length about dating apps. And the article contains quite a lot about women.
stavros 3y ago
> Guys nowadays work 5 times harder to get a woman 20 times shittier than their grandfather got 50 years ago This makes no sense at all. How would this even happen, when there's roughly one woman for every man?
- earlone 3y ago
  You'd be surprised to know the answer...
  - stavros 3y ago
    I have a feeling I won't be surprised at all at how little sense it'll make.
- livinginfear 3y ago
  Social customs surrounding sex inside marriage, or even sex inside a relationship have changed over time. Successful men have sexual access to more than one woman (If that's what they want). Sure, eventually people settle down and pair off, but before that happens the market is completely different.
  - stavros 3y ago
    I really doubt that a small group of men now hoards 70% of the women.
    - livinginfear 3y ago
      No one hoards women. If the top 10% of men had sexual access to more than one woman at a time, without committing to any of them in a monogamous relationship, that alone would be enough to change the dating landscape significantly. Assuming that the women involved weren't in a different relationship at the time.
      - stavros 3y ago
        Exactly, you're assuming that the man "had sexual access to more than one woman at a time", whereas the women were exclusive to that man. That's basically the definition of hoarding.
wiseowise 3y ago
> Guys nowadays work 5 times harder to get a woman 20 times shittier than their grandfather got 50 years ago That’s survivorship bias. You know your grandfather got great woman, because he already did. All of this is pure luck, you can increase your chances by exposing yourself to more opportunities to meet more women, but it’s not a guarantee that you’ll get your dream girlfriend.
- earlone 3y ago
  Indeed.
almatabata 3y ago
> It says that men suck at relationships I think you are hyper focusing on one very small paragraph title. The same paragraph labels it as a theory: "A theory that the core problem is that most men are terrible in relationships even when they are superficially fine, women learn this, and thus men whose selling point is their stability cannot get dates." Most of the article I find is mostly gender neutral. It also contradicts the usual claim that women/men will have to go on dates with an endless amount of losers: "There is the stereotype of the person (usually but not always a woman) who goes on dates constantly, finding an endless string of losers. The data here suggests that this essentially is not a thing, or that if you do that it works." There are definitely articles blaming everything on men but this article is not one of those.
- earlone 3y ago
  Yes agree, but it's much more fun to debate on this topic in particular :)

ianbutler 3y ago

Hi that's me, not even trying, or at least that was me until about a month ago. I had a relationship that affected me horribly in college, that took me 2 years to get over. Whatever you're thinking of, it was worse, and totally ruined my trust in people. Then I was like eh, fuck this shit because I was in early career and couldn't afford to get mentally messed up again like that. So that was another two years. Cue Covid where I was busy trying to get a startup off the ground and dealing with the simultaneous end of the world and then financially recovering from not getting said startup off the ground. Then, I got into my groove again and now I'm doing superbly. In fact I am probably only really ready and able to date now. So we're talking 2016-2024, 8 years of singleness. I was (honestly still could be) very content being single, it's pretty great. I do whatever I want, whenever I want. I have a few close friends for my support and a few more social acquaintances I do stuff with. I make a lot of money for a 29 year old, I have hobbies and workout regularly. Honestly, as a person I feel pretty complete. I don't strongly feel like I need another person to complete me, but I do want another person in my life now. I suspect a lot of people have just had a lot of heavy shit going on for the last bit of time, and like, the responsible thing isn't to throw your heavy shit onto someone else. Aside from that it takes a lot of energy, focus and caring to grow a relationship and like that's really hard to do when you're busy picking yourself up off the floor or just trying to stay treading water. Anyway, fast forward to the current dating scene. It kind of blows. Online dating is entirely asymmetric for guys, and interactions are low quality. I get like 3-5 matches a week which as I hear it is a pretty good rate for a guy. Of those matches the quality of conversation is non-existant. "You're cute, let's grab coffee." is what I've been defaulting to now because out of 20-25 matches in the last month I've had literally one engaging conversation. I totally understand why people self select out of that nonsense. I'm just starting to go to events now, because I have no issue walking up to someone and asking them out and at least this article shows that should be a way more sane way to date.

cvhashim04 3y ago
Can you tap into network of friends or family to meet new people?
- earlone 3y ago

account-5 3y ago

I definitely don't have 57 to 73 minutes to read this article. If I was single I still wouldn't.

walterbell 3y ago

Alternate timeline of dating apps? > The full right way, of course, would be a revival of OKCupid. > Here we have a product that me and essentially everyone else who has ever heard of it says was insanely great. If you put in the time on the questions, which was inherently fun, the people who match highly with you are almost always extraordinarily good matches, with very good response rates. My initial response rate was something absurd, and when I got unprompted inquiries they were great. Rather than play a numbers game, I picked my spots and fully customized my messages, and it paid off. Positive experiences abound. Everyone constantly complains that it is gone. > So, what if we simply created it again, the way it used to be? Do not reinvent the wheel, unless the wheel is lost, in which case by all means go reinvent it, people need wheels.

throwaway77384 3y ago
I was one of those people who got into online dating just at the transition from "Only weirdo losers do online dating" -> "The only way to meet anyone is online dating". So for about two years, I was there, on OKC as sooooo many brand new people discovered it, in a huge city, in my mid-twenties. It was an incredible time. I met so, so many interesting people, who were so similar to me. I couldn't believe it. It was all free, too. No lasting relationships ever came from it. I met my partner of 10 years at work eventually. I've never been on Tinder or any other online dating platform, but it sounds like the industry (it is now an industry...) has gone through the same cycle of VC-driven monetisation, removing all incentive for the platform to function correctly in the user's interest, much like any big platform nowadays. So, I guess we'll need some kind of online dating fediverse to fix this. I'd recommend copying exactly how OKC worked. It was the best approach I've ever seen. But also the only one ;)
- livinginfear 3y ago
  > removing all incentive for the platform to function correctly in the user's interest, much like any big platform nowadays. People keep saying this, but it's just not true. Tinder does function in many people's interest. I had a lot of success using Tinder, and eventually met my wife on there. People keep implying there's some kind of hidden algorithm at play that somehow pairs you up with people who are "Okay, but not great" to keep you hooked on the app. How the hell would it manage such an amazing feat?

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

Dalewyn 3y ago

Speaking as a guy who doesn't want a relationship, every single instance of someone or something asking me to marry (eg: this article) only makes my conviction to refuse even harder. I can't wait until I am naturally ejected out from the mating market I never even wanted to participate in.

livinginfear 3y ago
Have you considered talking to a therapist about this?
- Dalewyn 3y ago
  No.[1] Also, I do not appreciate the insinuation that I might be mentally ill. What is it with that, anyway? My conviction is the result of thorough deliberation; if anything, attempts at handwaving such as yours especially makes my conviction ever harder. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39343631 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39343631
  - glimshe 3y ago
    Biologically speaking, the very reason of our existence is to make descendants, or contribute to society so others can make descendants, with intelligence being an evolutionary trait to increase the likelihood of our species surviving. Now, you are free to go against our biological imperative, but such stance can be considered a mental health problem in the sense that "mental health" exists for the very survival of the species. One problem in your writeup is that it appears that you believe others should take your approach to living ("Life is a hellhole" instead of "My life is a hellhole"), which would lead to our species' extinction. Yes, life can be very tough, and long stretches of it can have more negatives than positives, but humanity has developed a wide range of tools to deal with that (psychotherapy, religion, support groups, community) so we can be relatively healthy and happy in the long run.
    - Dalewyn 3y ago
      >survival of the species Whether I make kids or not has absolutely no practical bearing upon the survival of the species. In fact, we're having overpopulation problems. The species will survive regardless of my choice. (I admit I still won't have kids if I along with a mate were the last remaining homo sapiens, I'm just not interested and the planet will keep spinning.) I can also contribute to survival of the species by helping others' kids I come across during my life. Counterintuitively, my choice to end my bloodline can also improve survival of the species because it's less mouths waging war down the line. >One problem in your writeup is that it appears that you believe others should take your approach to living I sincerely couldn't care less what others do in their bedrooms because it is none of my business, I already stated as such in another comment under the thread I linked.

livinginfear 3y ago

Lots of tech people seem to dislike Tinder. I want to present an argument in favour of the 'swipe and match' model: If your personality is 'stronger' than your appearance, in terms of attracting a partner, this model is actually highly optimal. Think of optimising a database query to maximise selectivity: You want to narrow the search space as quickly as possible. If finding a partner who is physically attracted to you is hard, then everyone who actually does match with you has cleared that hurdle. Lots of tech people seem to idealise OkCupid, but it's really a better use of your effort to swipe/match than sending personalised messages to many people on OkCupid, only for a large amount of recipients to reject you on account of your appearance.

slily 3y ago

Lack of opportunities for casual social interactions has got to be a killer for the introverted who work in sausage-fest industries, especially remote workers. If you can find satisfaction elsewhere, the increasingly high hurdle of initiating a relationship in this day and age no longer feels worth it. It comes down to a cost-benefit analysis, not a binary decision about wanting or not wanting a relationship.

Iamstillsingle 3y ago

Did not read the article in any great detail, just wanted to post my anecdote: I am a young male, far ahead of the curve career wise compared to my peers while also going for a bachelor in an equally fruitful subject. I have the height of a woman and the body of one too, although my face is not bad. I have passable social skills and have low inhibition when talking to people in general. I am somewhat exotic, not ethnically but mentally, as I grew up entirely in the west, and am now in the east. In the past 6 months I have been working on a bet with my "local" male friends to get a girlfriend, in that time span I have talked to over 200 "local" girls, pretty much whenever I have a break between sleep, work, and school I am on the lookout for opportunity. I talk to them on campus, on public transport, on weekends when I go out, when I engage in sports, when I am studying, and when I eat. Pretty much the only time I don't is when I am sleeping, because even work and school is not so important to me. Of these 200 or so girls, I would have no chemistry with 90% of them, not to say the attempt was poor or that I did not make a nice acquaintance, it was just not suitable to go further. Of the remaining 10%, 9% would turn me down when I ask for there number or a date, I would fail some test, I would pussy out, or it just was not meant to be. What struck me the most was how much they would tell me I was being "too nice" with the specific words I would use. Many would say it as though I was supposed to immediately pick up on the signal and talk to them worse. Even after explaining to them that my diction was only incidental, and I was not attempting to respect them intentionally, it would still turn them off entirely. The remaining 1% would likewise be turned off and plead with me, but they were in truth so ugly and/or desperate that they could live with it. In comparison, in the same period of time I talked to 4 or so religiously/culturally incompatible girls. I won't go into details because it will go against the site guidelines, but I would say some pretty horrible things to them, I would make use of all of my niche religious/cultural/geographic/historical "knowledge" to argue and belittle they're core values (Or atleast those of their fathers), dismiss them, act as though I am better then them, lie and cheat them, and just generally treat them as though they are below me. Out of the 4, one would become a nice acqauintance, one would become a good friend and help me out down the line, one would go out on a date with me, and the final one would give me her number, set up a date, and so on. The last one was some wannabe instagram model way out of my league, she outright invited me on a date (Even then I managed to decline and played it cool, instead invited her to my own date afterwards). Most of all it seemed like my success scaled proportionally with my arrogance. So to answer the original question, I am still single because I was taught and truly believe in the standard "western" or "romantic" ideal, and I am still hesitant to give up on it in the face of absolute failure.

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roenxi 3y ago

I'm not sure if the article author sees it as in scope, but an obvious problem here is the paradox of choice and the high absolute bar to getting a date. We're seeing numbers in the range of 100s of attempts to start expecting to find a partner. That seems high. If we look back at a hypothetical 1900s village, I don't think people necessarily had 100 partners to choose from. It'd be things like "in the local church group, I can pick between these 10 people and I have a very clear understanding of my relative social rank". The decisions made themselves, a lot of people had so-so relationships and that was acceptable because the alternative was worse. This article is suggesting a much, much higher bar to being in the game than that. A hypothetical dude needs to invest hours solely in finding dates, has to master app use, promotional skills, meet unclear shifting bars and have a good understanding of what signals in the discourse to glom on to and which to ignore as counterproductive. Then multiply that by hundred(s). Some grasp of statistics is recommended. There is a real chance of investing years into a relationship and just having it collapse because a better alternative comes along. Dating has probably gotten harder. That is before even looking at the changing economics of what a relationship is.

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LouisSayers 3y ago

As someone that's been on a good number of dates and had reasonable success, something I've thought about in retrospect: Date yourself and invite others along. Find things YOU want to do / go to places you'd like to go, schedule it in your calendar and invite potential mates along or join a group of others e.g. a hiking group. It's also a marathon, not a sprint, and dating is like Leetcode, the more you do it the better you get over time. Try different things, try the apps, speed dating, grab a drink at a hotel bar, join groups of people, build a network, pay for a coach... The main thing is you try things and learn. Yes it's effort, yes it costs money, yes you may need to go to the gym and work on yourself, but try to enjoy the process. Also, don't subscribe to limiting beliefs and don't go marrying the first person you meet just because you think you can't meet anyone else. There are literally millions of people out there, and there are plenty of bald short guys that do just fine. Lastly, it's totally OK to have standards - go for what you want and adjust and learn, and not everyone you like is going to reciprocate. The main thing is that you make an effort.