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cyberax! YOU LIVE FOR THIS "against urban cities" battle. Hi again wave I'm the bicycle commuter dude who likes walkable and dense cities. Of course course I w

by apsurd 3y ago

cyberax! YOU LIVE FOR THIS "against urban cities" battle. Hi again wave I'm the bicycle commuter dude who likes walkable and dense cities. Of course course I want just enough of my own private solitude to retreat to as well. But sign me up for density!

cyberax 3y ago
> Of course course I want just enough of my own private solitude to retreat to as well. But sign me up for density! Then why do you want density? Do you want other people to live in bunk beds in 40 years?
- apsurd 3y ago
  because it's not mutually exclusive. i feel like that's why your arguments are ultimately hard to parse. I really am ok with living with less possible surface area if it means i can have walkable access to all civilization's great ideas and achievements. that doesn't mean ZERO surface area. and it doesn't mean i would take a mcmansion on 5 acres if i could. Really though, I wouldn't if you gave it to me!
  - cyberax 3y ago
    > because it's not mutually exclusive. Yes, it is. It's a zero-sum game, and dense cities are more economically advantageous for companies. They allow them to offload their externalities onto their employees, via increased living costs. Tokyo is a GREAT example. It's now so dense and expensive that some people are forced to live in microapartments, where you can cook your food while sitting on a toilet. And of course, they are priced out of ever dreaming about buying a real apartment. And the cities nearby keep dying, just a couple of hours away from Tokyo, you can buy a house for basically free.
    - apsurd 3y ago
      i really do take you seriously. and i learn from you. but also: come on, Japan is the planet's most economically significant TINY ISLAND. you don't have to reach for capitalist conspiracy theories to reason about Japan's issues. and i say this as a kind of inevitable anti-capitalist!
      - cyberax 3y ago
        Tokyo's issues are not caused by it being on a tiny island. As I said, Japan has literally millions of empty houses right now: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/17/realestate/japan-empty-houses.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/17/realestate/japan-empty-ho... And there's nothing "conspiracy" about what I'm saying. There's no secret global cabal that wants to push people into cities. It's simply caused by a toxic confluence of ideology and economic forces.
        HDThoreaun 3y ago
        Tokyo's crowding is absolutely due to Japan being an island with essentially zero natural resources. Literally everyone wants to go to tokyo because there are no other jobs.
        cyberax 3y ago
        > Literally everyone wants to go to tokyo because there are no other jobs. Natural resources have nothing to do with it. Extraction industries employ comparatively few people, even in resource-rich countries. If anything, resource-rich countries experience even more densification. Case in point: Moscow. Its population density is 5200 people per square kilometer. Tokyo is at 6100 people per square kilometer. The reason is that it's easier for companies to create jobs in cities. It's not impossible for them to do otherwise, but a company with one huge office in the Downtown will likely have a competitive advantage over a company that has multiple distributed offices.
        apsurd 3y ago
        cyberax, did you read your own article you linked to? In short, the "abandoned houses" are abandoned BECAUSE they're rural. I can't understand how this serves your view about dense urban cities being bad.
- panick21_ 3y ago
  Oh my god, houses with more then one family in it, that straight out of Judge Dread. Everybody will live in vertical super cities with apartments like capsule hotels. I would be laughing if it wasn't so utterly sad and depressing that you think that the reality.

by apsurd 3y ago

cyberax 3y ago

> Of course course I want just enough of my own private solitude to retreat to as well. But sign me up for density! Then why do you want density? Do you want other people to live in bunk beds in 40 years?

apsurd 3y ago
because it's not mutually exclusive. i feel like that's why your arguments are ultimately hard to parse. I really am ok with living with less possible surface area if it means i can have walkable access to all civilization's great ideas and achievements. that doesn't mean ZERO surface area. and it doesn't mean i would take a mcmansion on 5 acres if i could. Really though, I wouldn't if you gave it to me!
- cyberax 3y ago
  > because it's not mutually exclusive. Yes, it is. It's a zero-sum game, and dense cities are more economically advantageous for companies. They allow them to offload their externalities onto their employees, via increased living costs. Tokyo is a GREAT example. It's now so dense and expensive that some people are forced to live in microapartments, where you can cook your food while sitting on a toilet. And of course, they are priced out of ever dreaming about buying a real apartment. And the cities nearby keep dying, just a couple of hours away from Tokyo, you can buy a house for basically free.
  - apsurd 3y ago
    i really do take you seriously. and i learn from you. but also: come on, Japan is the planet's most economically significant TINY ISLAND. you don't have to reach for capitalist conspiracy theories to reason about Japan's issues. and i say this as a kind of inevitable anti-capitalist!
    - cyberax 3y ago
      Tokyo's issues are not caused by it being on a tiny island. As I said, Japan has literally millions of empty houses right now: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/17/realestate/japan-empty-houses.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/17/realestate/japan-empty-ho... And there's nothing "conspiracy" about what I'm saying. There's no secret global cabal that wants to push people into cities. It's simply caused by a toxic confluence of ideology and economic forces.
      - HDThoreaun 3y ago
        Tokyo's crowding is absolutely due to Japan being an island with essentially zero natural resources. Literally everyone wants to go to tokyo because there are no other jobs.
        cyberax 3y ago
        > Literally everyone wants to go to tokyo because there are no other jobs. Natural resources have nothing to do with it. Extraction industries employ comparatively few people, even in resource-rich countries. If anything, resource-rich countries experience even more densification. Case in point: Moscow. Its population density is 5200 people per square kilometer. Tokyo is at 6100 people per square kilometer. The reason is that it's easier for companies to create jobs in cities. It's not impossible for them to do otherwise, but a company with one huge office in the Downtown will likely have a competitive advantage over a company that has multiple distributed offices.
      - apsurd 3y ago
        cyberax, did you read your own article you linked to? In short, the "abandoned houses" are abandoned BECAUSE they're rural. I can't understand how this serves your view about dense urban cities being bad.
panick21_ 3y ago
Oh my god, houses with more then one family in it, that straight out of Judge Dread. Everybody will live in vertical super cities with apartments like capsule hotels. I would be laughing if it wasn't so utterly sad and depressing that you think that the reality.