2 ms·

I did tell you. Everything you said is fantasy. The withdrawal is already complete. It went pretty well.

lukan 3y ago
I really don't feel like I need to convince you of anything, I am just curious, did you read that article and still hold your opinion? https://kyivindependent.com/avdiivka-defense-uncertain-as-ukraine-struggles-with-fortification/ https://kyivindependent.com/avdiivka-defense-uncertain-as-uk... Because I did not made up anything, you can claim that the Kyivindependent did, but they are probably closer to the events than you. "The withdrawal is already complete. It went pretty well. " Information is still chaotic, but apparently they left the injured and many men and equipment behind. Not my definition of "pretty well". https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/17/world/europe/ukraine-avdiivka-withdraw-despair.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/17/world/europe/ukraine-avdi...
- jncfhnb 3y ago
  No, doesn’t move the needle of my opinion at all. The institute of war daily updates is the only source I care to trust. News media is often hyperbolic in both directions.
  - lukan 3y ago
    Yeah and nothing they write contradicts anything I wrote. I also read them, but Kyevindependent and NYT are quite reputable as well. "Ukrainian forces will likely be able to establish new defensive lines not far beyond Avdiivka, which will likely prompt the culmination of the Russian offensive in this area. " If there would have been a second line truly ready and prepared, there would be no need to write it this way. And all they wrote about the retreat, is that they have not seen pictures of large groups of ukrainians surrender. They do not deny, that the order came to leave the wounded behind. Or that lots of equipment had to be left behind. They just do not mention it. But they do not wrote the retreat went pretty well, like you did. "Russian forces have not yet demonstrated an ability to secure operationally significant gains or conduct rapid mechanized maneuver across large swaths of territory" And this is correct - but they are aware and state the possibility, that the front can collapse.

I really don't feel like I need to convince you of anything, I am just curious, did you read that article and still hold your opinion? https://kyivindependent.com/avdiivka-defense-uncertain-as-ukraine-struggles-with-fortification/ https://kyivindependent.com/avdiivka-defense-uncertain-as-uk... Because I did not made up anything, you can claim that the Kyivindependent did, but they are probably closer to the events than you. "The withdrawal is already complete. It went pretty well. " Information is still chaotic, but apparently they left the injured and many men and equipment behind. Not my definition of "pretty well". https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/17/world/europe/ukraine-avdiivka-withdraw-despair.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/17/world/europe/ukraine-avdi...

jncfhnb 3y ago
No, doesn’t move the needle of my opinion at all. The institute of war daily updates is the only source I care to trust. News media is often hyperbolic in both directions.
- lukan 3y ago
  Yeah and nothing they write contradicts anything I wrote. I also read them, but Kyevindependent and NYT are quite reputable as well. "Ukrainian forces will likely be able to establish new defensive lines not far beyond Avdiivka, which will likely prompt the culmination of the Russian offensive in this area. " If there would have been a second line truly ready and prepared, there would be no need to write it this way. And all they wrote about the retreat, is that they have not seen pictures of large groups of ukrainians surrender. They do not deny, that the order came to leave the wounded behind. Or that lots of equipment had to be left behind. They just do not mention it. But they do not wrote the retreat went pretty well, like you did. "Russian forces have not yet demonstrated an ability to secure operationally significant gains or conduct rapid mechanized maneuver across large swaths of territory" And this is correct - but they are aware and state the possibility, that the front can collapse.