4 ms·

Who? Considering the conservatives who hate taxation and the welfare state have been in power for 77 years versus the 30 or so years Labour have had, I'd love

Who? Considering the conservatives who hate taxation and the welfare state have been in power for 77 years versus the 30 or so years Labour have had, I'd love to know how the author arrived at said conclusion.

all2 3y ago
It's almost like the talking points don't have anything to do with their actual agenda. Is anyone still surprised by this?
roenxi 3y ago
I'd speculate they were either lying about their motivations or ineffective (maybe both). UK government spending has consistently trended up over the last century [0]. It follows a pattern of large expansions then small pullbacks. Of that, social spending basically only goes up (there is a graph a little down the same page). [0] https://ourworldindata.org/government-spending https://ourworldindata.org/government-spending
WalterBright 3y ago
He did write a whole book about it, which I gave a link to. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._Northcote_Parkinson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._Northcote_Parkinson
WalterBright 3y ago
In America, the conservatives never get enough votes to roll it back, all they manage to achieve is slowing its growth slightly. I suspect the only reason the US economy hasn't collapsed yet under the weight of it is computers have dramatically improved productivity.
- defrost 3y ago
  Public debt, as a share of GDP, peaked at the end of World War II and then gradually declined until the Reagan tax cuts of the 1980s, which led to record deficits. Since then, the debt-to-GDP ratio has steadily risen, almost reaching its 1946 record in 2020. Only during the period 1996-2000, under President Bill Clinton, did this trend temporarily reverse. ~ America’s Mythical Fiscal Conservatives (2023) and numerous other pieces from across the US spectrum Unfortunately, what Republicans really represent – implausible spending cuts, poorly targeted tax cuts, and empty threats to push the US into default unless IRS funding is cut – can only make the long-term fiscal outlook worse. Reality tends to run counter to many libertarian talking points.
  - roenxi 3y ago
    What part of that is running counter to libertarian talking points? The libertarians have been pointing out that the Republican party is a fiscal disaster for a while now. As you pointed out it is just a matter of looking at the results to see it.
    - defrost 3y ago
      Having read (US) libertarian talking points for roughly four decades now there's very few things that run counter to some libertarian talking point, they're an extremely broad tent with many poles that stand at all angles, some that lay on the ground. Given there's no real core I'm happy to leave the libertarian part out and reduce to just poking fun at the notion that US conservatives are fiscal conservatives bravely trying but failing to keep their fingers in the dyke. FWiW I'm no particular fan of the other party in the US two party system, it's about time somebody took Ben Franklin's advice and opened the field up. Still, it's an iterative consequence of a voting system that didn't scale well that the washington system came to where it is.
      - WalterBright 3y ago
        Congress has rarely passed a bill that resembles libertarian talking points. Very few Republicans are libertarians. For example, a libertarian has no issue with gay marriage. > just poking fun at the notion that US conservatives are fiscal conservatives bravely trying but failing to keep their fingers in the dyke. They voted against Biden's trillions in spending.

all2 3y ago

It's almost like the talking points don't have anything to do with their actual agenda. Is anyone still surprised by this?

roenxi 3y ago

I'd speculate they were either lying about their motivations or ineffective (maybe both). UK government spending has consistently trended up over the last century [0]. It follows a pattern of large expansions then small pullbacks. Of that, social spending basically only goes up (there is a graph a little down the same page). [0] https://ourworldindata.org/government-spending https://ourworldindata.org/government-spending

WalterBright 3y ago

He did write a whole book about it, which I gave a link to. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._Northcote_Parkinson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._Northcote_Parkinson

WalterBright 3y ago

In America, the conservatives never get enough votes to roll it back, all they manage to achieve is slowing its growth slightly. I suspect the only reason the US economy hasn't collapsed yet under the weight of it is computers have dramatically improved productivity.

defrost 3y ago
Public debt, as a share of GDP, peaked at the end of World War II and then gradually declined until the Reagan tax cuts of the 1980s, which led to record deficits. Since then, the debt-to-GDP ratio has steadily risen, almost reaching its 1946 record in 2020. Only during the period 1996-2000, under President Bill Clinton, did this trend temporarily reverse. ~ America’s Mythical Fiscal Conservatives (2023) and numerous other pieces from across the US spectrum Unfortunately, what Republicans really represent – implausible spending cuts, poorly targeted tax cuts, and empty threats to push the US into default unless IRS funding is cut – can only make the long-term fiscal outlook worse. Reality tends to run counter to many libertarian talking points.
- roenxi 3y ago
  What part of that is running counter to libertarian talking points? The libertarians have been pointing out that the Republican party is a fiscal disaster for a while now. As you pointed out it is just a matter of looking at the results to see it.
  - defrost 3y ago
    Having read (US) libertarian talking points for roughly four decades now there's very few things that run counter to some libertarian talking point, they're an extremely broad tent with many poles that stand at all angles, some that lay on the ground. Given there's no real core I'm happy to leave the libertarian part out and reduce to just poking fun at the notion that US conservatives are fiscal conservatives bravely trying but failing to keep their fingers in the dyke. FWiW I'm no particular fan of the other party in the US two party system, it's about time somebody took Ben Franklin's advice and opened the field up. Still, it's an iterative consequence of a voting system that didn't scale well that the washington system came to where it is.
    - WalterBright 3y ago
      Congress has rarely passed a bill that resembles libertarian talking points. Very few Republicans are libertarians. For example, a libertarian has no issue with gay marriage. > just poking fun at the notion that US conservatives are fiscal conservatives bravely trying but failing to keep their fingers in the dyke. They voted against Biden's trillions in spending.