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Google says there are 7 million search results for "Star Wars" on Etsy.com, an online marketplace for handmade goods. They're likely all infringing on Disney IP

Google says there are 7 million search results for "Star Wars" on Etsy.com, an online marketplace for handmade goods. They're likely all infringing on Disney IP, as anyone big enough to get a license to make official Star Wars merchandise isn't going to qualify as an artisan handmade crafter to sell on Etsy. To perform a crackdown on those 7 million listings, you're proposing that Disney would need to make a $700 million dollar deposit with Etsy and wait for hopefully most of it to trickle back in. If the infringer is somewhere on the other side of the globe that Disney can't easily reach legally, they can't get their deposit back until they spend thousands filing a federal lawsuit that'll go unanswered, so the deposit is more than forfeit in many of these cases. That's for a single company to defend a single franchise on a single website. I don't think this is a "simple" solution.

grecy 3y ago
So you're saying one of the richest corporations on the planet can't afford to put down $700 million to guarantee their claims of infringement are actually accurate? Good, don't make the claim. Maybe multi-billion dollar companies shouldn't be enforcing copyright in such a draconian way in the first place.
indymike 3y ago
> They're likely all infringing on Disney IP, First, let's not use IP here. Let's be specific and say copyright since that is what DMCA covers. > Etsy.com This is an awful example as etsy would be the company that the DMCA takedown would be against. Etsy certainly is worth suing or profiting from selling unlicensed goods. > $700 million dollar deposit The amount of the deposit you use is the high end of the range. Even so, you didn't account that each deposit covers up to 100 URLs, so the deposit would be $70M which I think the mouse can afford, easily. > they can't get their deposit back until they spend thousands filing a federal lawsuit that'll go unanswered, The deposit would go back if the takedown does not get a counterclaim. Legitimate claims would result in the deposit being returned. Not every claim will have a counterclaim. If there is a counterclaim, the next step is a Federal lawsuit anyway. And if they don't answer you get a default judgement that can be collected in many countries around the world, and even on contingency. > I don't think this is a "simple" solution. You gave very little consideration to the people that are badly affected by fake counterclaims, and are assuming that every actor is a bad faith factory.
- dangrossman 3y ago
  > This is an awful example as etsy would be the company that the DMCA takedown would be against. Etsy is a marketplace that connects independent buyers and sellers, like eBay but only for handmade and vintage goods. Every item on their site is listed, sold and shipped by a third party. Every listing image and description is "user generated content". They are a service provider with no liability for copyright infringement on their platform so long as they follow the DMCA process. Like any major UGC host, they have an IP reporting portal for companies like Disney to make large-scale sweeps of the whole marketplace for infringing listings and file complaints en masse. They do so somewhat regularly. I remember all the noise when they issued mass claims against all the "Baby Yoda" merchandise on Etsy.
  - amanaplanacanal 3y ago
    One correction: Etsy allows sale of mass manufactured goods since 2013.
  - indymike 3y ago
    > Like any major UGC host Etsy is not a major "UGC" host, they are a marketplace taking a cut of sales for product.
    - dangrossman 3y ago
      They operate a website that hosts hundreds of millions of webpages containing images and text provided by their users. No products pass through their hands. They're a UGC host, just like YouTube or Shopify or Hacker News, all of whom deal with DMCA claims. The DMCA safe harbor provisions do not care about the reason for which a website is hosting UGC.
      - indymike 3y ago
        The takedown should be filed with Google (the host) against Etsy for content hosted on Etsy. It is questionable that Etsy is the host.
michaelmrose 3y ago
Google's number of results page is a complete lie told by Google there never were 7 million results to start with. There are probably only single digit thousands of listing with 99% of listings from less than 100 people. Sue them and forward the legal papers to Etsy.

grecy 3y ago

So you're saying one of the richest corporations on the planet can't afford to put down $700 million to guarantee their claims of infringement are actually accurate? Good, don't make the claim. Maybe multi-billion dollar companies shouldn't be enforcing copyright in such a draconian way in the first place.

indymike 3y ago

> They're likely all infringing on Disney IP, First, let's not use IP here. Let's be specific and say copyright since that is what DMCA covers. > Etsy.com This is an awful example as etsy would be the company that the DMCA takedown would be against. Etsy certainly is worth suing or profiting from selling unlicensed goods. > $700 million dollar deposit The amount of the deposit you use is the high end of the range. Even so, you didn't account that each deposit covers up to 100 URLs, so the deposit would be $70M which I think the mouse can afford, easily. > they can't get their deposit back until they spend thousands filing a federal lawsuit that'll go unanswered, The deposit would go back if the takedown does not get a counterclaim. Legitimate claims would result in the deposit being returned. Not every claim will have a counterclaim. If there is a counterclaim, the next step is a Federal lawsuit anyway. And if they don't answer you get a default judgement that can be collected in many countries around the world, and even on contingency. > I don't think this is a "simple" solution. You gave very little consideration to the people that are badly affected by fake counterclaims, and are assuming that every actor is a bad faith factory.

dangrossman 3y ago
> This is an awful example as etsy would be the company that the DMCA takedown would be against. Etsy is a marketplace that connects independent buyers and sellers, like eBay but only for handmade and vintage goods. Every item on their site is listed, sold and shipped by a third party. Every listing image and description is "user generated content". They are a service provider with no liability for copyright infringement on their platform so long as they follow the DMCA process. Like any major UGC host, they have an IP reporting portal for companies like Disney to make large-scale sweeps of the whole marketplace for infringing listings and file complaints en masse. They do so somewhat regularly. I remember all the noise when they issued mass claims against all the "Baby Yoda" merchandise on Etsy.
- amanaplanacanal 3y ago
  One correction: Etsy allows sale of mass manufactured goods since 2013.
- indymike 3y ago
  > Like any major UGC host Etsy is not a major "UGC" host, they are a marketplace taking a cut of sales for product.
  - dangrossman 3y ago
    They operate a website that hosts hundreds of millions of webpages containing images and text provided by their users. No products pass through their hands. They're a UGC host, just like YouTube or Shopify or Hacker News, all of whom deal with DMCA claims. The DMCA safe harbor provisions do not care about the reason for which a website is hosting UGC.
    - indymike 3y ago
      The takedown should be filed with Google (the host) against Etsy for content hosted on Etsy. It is questionable that Etsy is the host.

michaelmrose 3y ago

Google's number of results page is a complete lie told by Google there never were 7 million results to start with. There are probably only single digit thousands of listing with 99% of listings from less than 100 people. Sue them and forward the legal papers to Etsy.