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This epidemic will continue to spread unless the burden of proof is placed on the party filing the complaint, along with having penalties imposed for filing bog

This epidemic will continue to spread unless the burden of proof is placed on the party filing the complaint, along with having penalties imposed for filing bogus complaints.

LegitShady 3y ago
the problem is the scale of the content is so big that no company is actually willing to have humans review all the claims.
- tokai 3y ago
  That should really be their problem to solve.
- realusername 3y ago
  If they can't even notice the abuse, does the abuse even matter? I think that's the core problem here.
  - dangrossman 3y ago
    Imagine you're Disney and you want to crack down on merchandise infringing on your IP. You type [site:etsy.com "minnie mouse"] into Google and get 3.8 million results. There's another million results for "iron man", 2.1 million for "avengers", 6.8 million for "star wars", etc. That's just the likely infringement on a single marketplace. I don't think this is a scale too small to notice. How many people would Disney have to employ to review every listing before making a claim, and continue to do so as fast as the world population can make additional unlicensed copies?
    - realusername 3y ago
      Maybe they just don't need to simply? I understand they would like as much control as possible but that's impossible with the abundance of choices and places nowadays and I firmly think that those automated blind takedowns are doing more harm than good. I don't think total control is possible in such an environment, DMCA or not.
    - devmor 3y ago
      With all due respect, that sounds like a problem for Disney. I do not see why a corporations scale of intellectual property protection should have its burden foisted upon everyone else. It makes to sense to provide a modicum of protection that can apply to individuals, but just as individuals can't require a policeman to stand guard outside their home 24/7, corporations must hire security guards if they want extra protection from the undesirable elements their commercial activity attracts.
- j-bos 3y ago
  Seems like a problem for automation to solve, automation takes existing jobs, workers transition servicing in niche's that are currently lacking, like all forms of moderation and review. Oversimplified of course.
- Larrikin 3y ago
  Imagine if large real estate developers could say that they are constructing too many buildings to make sure they are all up to code. Society has no obligation to make sure companies can scale as fast as possible.
paulgb 3y ago
That would be the ideal, but a secondary deterrent is the Streisand effect. If I had the time, I would love to aggregate listings from Lumen that use sites like uniontimes and thetribunepost to instigate false takedowns, and list them all so that they would come up in a Google search showing that someone had (fraudulently) tried to have the stories removed. I’m not sure how much of a deterrent it would be, but I imagine that sort of thing would at least prevent people from recommending the fake-takedown approach to others.
superkuh 3y ago
There's a better solution. Just make it so claimants have to be a real person. There should be "know your customer" for claimaints for laws requiring companies to follow up on legal claims like DMCA reports. KYC is obviously socially accepted and easily implemented since it's being required for so many other things. The whole basis of an adversarial legal system is that you need two legal persons on either side. This is a context in which you have to wonder why it isn't already like that. Once false reports from fake companies and people are infeasible there will be much less of a problem. All without changing the penalties.

This epidemic will continue to spread unless the burden of proof is placed on the party filing the complaint, along with having penalties imposed for filing bogus complaints.

LegitShady 3y ago

the problem is the scale of the content is so big that no company is actually willing to have humans review all the claims.

tokai 3y ago
That should really be their problem to solve.
realusername 3y ago
If they can't even notice the abuse, does the abuse even matter? I think that's the core problem here.
- dangrossman 3y ago
  Imagine you're Disney and you want to crack down on merchandise infringing on your IP. You type [site:etsy.com "minnie mouse"] into Google and get 3.8 million results. There's another million results for "iron man", 2.1 million for "avengers", 6.8 million for "star wars", etc. That's just the likely infringement on a single marketplace. I don't think this is a scale too small to notice. How many people would Disney have to employ to review every listing before making a claim, and continue to do so as fast as the world population can make additional unlicensed copies?
  - realusername 3y ago
    Maybe they just don't need to simply? I understand they would like as much control as possible but that's impossible with the abundance of choices and places nowadays and I firmly think that those automated blind takedowns are doing more harm than good. I don't think total control is possible in such an environment, DMCA or not.
  - devmor 3y ago
    With all due respect, that sounds like a problem for Disney. I do not see why a corporations scale of intellectual property protection should have its burden foisted upon everyone else. It makes to sense to provide a modicum of protection that can apply to individuals, but just as individuals can't require a policeman to stand guard outside their home 24/7, corporations must hire security guards if they want extra protection from the undesirable elements their commercial activity attracts.
j-bos 3y ago
Seems like a problem for automation to solve, automation takes existing jobs, workers transition servicing in niche's that are currently lacking, like all forms of moderation and review. Oversimplified of course.
Larrikin 3y ago
Imagine if large real estate developers could say that they are constructing too many buildings to make sure they are all up to code. Society has no obligation to make sure companies can scale as fast as possible.

paulgb 3y ago

That would be the ideal, but a secondary deterrent is the Streisand effect. If I had the time, I would love to aggregate listings from Lumen that use sites like uniontimes and thetribunepost to instigate false takedowns, and list them all so that they would come up in a Google search showing that someone had (fraudulently) tried to have the stories removed. I’m not sure how much of a deterrent it would be, but I imagine that sort of thing would at least prevent people from recommending the fake-takedown approach to others.

superkuh 3y ago

There's a better solution. Just make it so claimants have to be a real person. There should be "know your customer" for claimaints for laws requiring companies to follow up on legal claims like DMCA reports. KYC is obviously socially accepted and easily implemented since it's being required for so many other things. The whole basis of an adversarial legal system is that you need two legal persons on either side. This is a context in which you have to wonder why it isn't already like that. Once false reports from fake companies and people are infeasible there will be much less of a problem. All without changing the penalties.