5 ms·

I always wanted to program, to create great things, got really good at it, but most of the time I was overtaken by folks playing politics that only used tech as

I always wanted to program, to create great things, got really good at it, but most of the time I was overtaken by folks playing politics that only used tech as a stepping stone to something they always wanted to do but only tech gave them financial resources to do that.

pickledish 3y ago
I remember feeling like this a while ago -- like there was something inherently different (...better?) about "us" (who are in tech because we just fundamentally love programming) compared to "them" (who are in tech because there's good money in it). Though over the last couple years I think I've been changing my mind a bit. I've had the chance to get to know some more people -- people who are indeed in tech for mostly financial reasons, but who are still fantastic developers and care a lot about the craft. I realized that having dreams outside of software doesn't necessarily make you worse at it, or "less deserving" of the job. And, I definitely wouldn't conflate "in tech for the money" with "playing politics" / stupid ladder-climbing -- I bet there's some nontrivial overlap there, but there are other reasons one might need strong financial stability, like if they don't have any kind of other safety net (from the government, from their family) to fall back on, and thus feel worried without a good foundation.
breather 3y ago
Tech for tech's sake helps nobody. Politics is a fact of nearly every facet of life—you can accept this and play the game or accept that you're in the backseat. The worst people in the world already know this and run our industry. There's no reason we have to accept them.
- noncoml 3y ago
  > Tech for tech's sake helps nobody If it wasn’t for science, art and tech for their own sake we would still be on the trees gathering bananas
  - breather 3y ago
    Art? Yes, of course! I have no clue what you're referring to with tech, though. Throughout history development of tech has almost always driven by seeking economic leverage. I'm sure there are exceptions but I can't think of any. Not sure what you're referring to with science at all.
    - musicale 3y ago
      > Throughout history development of tech has almost always driven by seeking economic leverage. I'm sure there are exceptions but I can't think of any. What about: - curiosity (much of science, mathematics, etc.) - artistic expression (musical instruments, demoscene) - fortunate accidents (penicillin) - just tinkering around (all sorts of inventions) - play and fun (many non-commercial computer games) - communication (telegraph, telephone, email, ...) - self-expression (blogs) - being dissatisfied with something and trying to change it (many more inventions) - basic needs (advances in food, shelter, medicine...) - trying to gain a military advantage (all sorts of weaponry and defenses) - exploration (e.g. traveling to the bottom of the ocean, or landing on the moon) - ideology/philosophy/religion (GNU and free software; cathedrals; pyramids) etc. At the end of the day much of technology is motivated by human needs, interests, desires, fears, etc. OP's move from tech to comedy writing shows that interest or passion can be powerful motivators.
      - breather 3y ago
        I'm as keen to wax poetic about the non-economic potential of technology as the next person, but I'm not deluding myself into thinking that was why the technology was developed in the first place. Also, a military advantage is an economic one, there's no real difference between the concepts.
        wrs 3y ago
        So you’re saying all of technology is the result of saying “we could make money if we had a thing that did X”, and none of it is the result of “we found a way to do X because we thought it would be cool.” If nothing else, you just dismissed most of mathematics and basic physics.
- dart200 3y ago
  > The worst people in the world already know this and run our industry. There's no reason we have to accept them. tbh until we change the way to go about politics, or collective decision making, this isn't going to change.
noncoml 3y ago
I feel lucky and privileged to be in that position. I get to do what I love and get paid very generously. If it wasn’t for “those people” or for tech being so lucrative to attract them, I would probably still do the same but struggle to make ends meet. So I’m very grateful that tech is what it is today.
- ghaff 3y ago
  People are lucky when there's some intersection between what they like doing, what they're good at, and what pays reasonably well.
- johnnyanmac 3y ago
  as a gamedev, I just get the worst of both worlds. no job security and below average pay. I can't relate. "Passion" hasn't saved me from layoffs.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
doesnt_know 3y ago
That's the system we live in. Feels pretty natural that people will optimise for the effort/$ ratio if they have the power to do so. Sitting in my home AC'd office, making a computer do things and getting paid more then basically every "essential service" is probably the sweetest deal outside of being born into a wealthy family. I personally love to code, I literally do it in my free time to solve my own little problems and/or just to learn, but I don't resent people who are only doing it for the money or because it's easier than most alternatives.
Klonoar 3y ago
That’s the game, yeah. Sometimes you have to do shit you don’t want to do in order to accomplish what you do want to do. It’s on you.
rvba 3y ago
You can make a personal project?

pickledish 3y ago

I remember feeling like this a while ago -- like there was something inherently different (...better?) about "us" (who are in tech because we just fundamentally love programming) compared to "them" (who are in tech because there's good money in it). Though over the last couple years I think I've been changing my mind a bit. I've had the chance to get to know some more people -- people who are indeed in tech for mostly financial reasons, but who are still fantastic developers and care a lot about the craft. I realized that having dreams outside of software doesn't necessarily make you worse at it, or "less deserving" of the job. And, I definitely wouldn't conflate "in tech for the money" with "playing politics" / stupid ladder-climbing -- I bet there's some nontrivial overlap there, but there are other reasons one might need strong financial stability, like if they don't have any kind of other safety net (from the government, from their family) to fall back on, and thus feel worried without a good foundation.

breather 3y ago

Tech for tech's sake helps nobody. Politics is a fact of nearly every facet of life—you can accept this and play the game or accept that you're in the backseat. The worst people in the world already know this and run our industry. There's no reason we have to accept them.

noncoml 3y ago
> Tech for tech's sake helps nobody If it wasn’t for science, art and tech for their own sake we would still be on the trees gathering bananas
- breather 3y ago
  Art? Yes, of course! I have no clue what you're referring to with tech, though. Throughout history development of tech has almost always driven by seeking economic leverage. I'm sure there are exceptions but I can't think of any. Not sure what you're referring to with science at all.
  - musicale 3y ago
    > Throughout history development of tech has almost always driven by seeking economic leverage. I'm sure there are exceptions but I can't think of any. What about: - curiosity (much of science, mathematics, etc.) - artistic expression (musical instruments, demoscene) - fortunate accidents (penicillin) - just tinkering around (all sorts of inventions) - play and fun (many non-commercial computer games) - communication (telegraph, telephone, email, ...) - self-expression (blogs) - being dissatisfied with something and trying to change it (many more inventions) - basic needs (advances in food, shelter, medicine...) - trying to gain a military advantage (all sorts of weaponry and defenses) - exploration (e.g. traveling to the bottom of the ocean, or landing on the moon) - ideology/philosophy/religion (GNU and free software; cathedrals; pyramids) etc. At the end of the day much of technology is motivated by human needs, interests, desires, fears, etc. OP's move from tech to comedy writing shows that interest or passion can be powerful motivators.
    - breather 3y ago
      I'm as keen to wax poetic about the non-economic potential of technology as the next person, but I'm not deluding myself into thinking that was why the technology was developed in the first place. Also, a military advantage is an economic one, there's no real difference between the concepts.
      - wrs 3y ago
        So you’re saying all of technology is the result of saying “we could make money if we had a thing that did X”, and none of it is the result of “we found a way to do X because we thought it would be cool.” If nothing else, you just dismissed most of mathematics and basic physics.
dart200 3y ago
> The worst people in the world already know this and run our industry. There's no reason we have to accept them. tbh until we change the way to go about politics, or collective decision making, this isn't going to change.

noncoml 3y ago

I feel lucky and privileged to be in that position. I get to do what I love and get paid very generously. If it wasn’t for “those people” or for tech being so lucrative to attract them, I would probably still do the same but struggle to make ends meet. So I’m very grateful that tech is what it is today.

ghaff 3y ago
People are lucky when there's some intersection between what they like doing, what they're good at, and what pays reasonably well.
johnnyanmac 3y ago
as a gamedev, I just get the worst of both worlds. no job security and below average pay. I can't relate. "Passion" hasn't saved me from layoffs.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

doesnt_know 3y ago

That's the system we live in. Feels pretty natural that people will optimise for the effort/$ ratio if they have the power to do so. Sitting in my home AC'd office, making a computer do things and getting paid more then basically every "essential service" is probably the sweetest deal outside of being born into a wealthy family. I personally love to code, I literally do it in my free time to solve my own little problems and/or just to learn, but I don't resent people who are only doing it for the money or because it's easier than most alternatives.

Klonoar 3y ago

That’s the game, yeah. Sometimes you have to do shit you don’t want to do in order to accomplish what you do want to do. It’s on you.

rvba 3y ago

You can make a personal project?