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Dang they went out and found 400+ of a rare cactus and avoided building on them? Anyone know how they actually did that survey? Like someone just goes out for d

Dang they went out and found 400+ of a rare cactus and avoided building on them? Anyone know how they actually did that survey? Like someone just goes out for days at a time and looks?

tfourb 3y ago
Not sure how it went in that specific case but yes, these type of impact studies are usually hands on, you go out into the field with a bunch of people and comb an area completely. In case of a chip factory currently developed by Intel in Germany, they went out onto the 200ha (roughly 280 football fields) and found and resettled 7 rare hamsters. 2 of those had to be dug out: https://www.mdr.de/nachrichten/sachsen-anhalt/magdeburg/magdeburg/intel-eulenberg-boerde-hamster-umzug-100.html https://www.mdr.de/nachrichten/sachsen-anhalt/magdeburg/magd...
- nharada 3y ago
  That's pretty wild. Do you much about this? It's kinda related to a project I'm working on and I'd be interested in chatting if so!
  - tfourb 3y ago
    Not really. I’ve done academic fieldwork before but not specifically this type of environmental impact study.
  - s1artibartfast 3y ago
    For what it is worth, a lot of environmental work is very hands on. I have a friend who's full time job was to walk in front of tractors and make sure they don't run over snakes. Another who's job was part of a large team with the job walk power lines under construction and make sure birds don't nest in them. If they did nest, the construction project would be on hold for a year.
- araes 3y ago
  That story is one of the weirder stories I've read on Hacker News recently. Cute though: "The last hamster of the fields gave a timid crow when Alexander Resetaritz drew it out of the construction on his paw and pushed it into the transport box."
  - tfourb 3y ago
    This type of environmental mitigation is pretty common here in Germany. I'm currently working with a local organization that wants to revitalize an old water mill barn from the 1700s (I think). It's currently in a really bad shape but to even start the permitting process to put a new roof on it, we need a qualified person doing an environmental impact study, making sure that there are no rare bats or owls hanging out in the rafters. It's actually not that big of a deal, they basically go in, look closely for any signs of these animals and make a few photos, the actual report is only a page or so. But if there were any of those animals, they'd have to be professionally removed and resettled elsewhere and the new construction would likely have to be adapted to continue to offer habitats.
- pixl97 3y ago
  I wonder how much identification of different floria could be done by hi-def drone capture of an area then image identification of different species could be done these days? I could see things like hamsters being more difficult as small mammals tend to hide to avoid being prey.
  - tfourb 3y ago
    The problem as you say likely being that the drone shares properties with predatory birds that make hamsters scurry away ;-). Many endangered plants won't be visible from above due to other, larger plants and you'd need millimeter resolution or better. I wouldn't underestimate how effective experienced and qualified humans can be in finding and interpreting signs of the presence of a small number of specific species in a large area. Drones and AI will probably get there at some point, but I doubt that its close.
doodlebugging 3y ago
Back in the day I worked on seismic field crews in that region. Each crew had field archaeologists and biologists and representatives from the tribes and Bureau of Land Management working closely with us to insure that we followed all procedures to protect sensitive areas from disturbance. That meant in practice that local or BLM archaeologists and biologists led the way across the area where we intended to acquire data. Just as you see in the photos in the linked presentation (user 1970-01-01), teams of experts surveyed the land looking for sensitive or threatened plants and animals and archaeologists identified areas with cultural artifacts. These areas were flagged and that flagging placed them off limits to our operations. They were No-Go areas. We had permission to operate within a fairly narrow easement across the landscape with strict guidelines about vehicle access, allowable damage to existing vegetation and the landscape, trash removal, etc since that region is very arid and small things like orange peels become items that are recognizable centuries after they are discarded. For this survey I expect that they staked the potential affected area and walked every bit of it using pin flags to mark things that are not to be disturbed. The area is only about 8 square miles so it shouldn't take that long.
KennyBlanken 3y ago
Satellite/aerial imagery followed by more accurate surveying where necessary.

Dang they went out and found 400+ of a rare cactus and avoided building on them? Anyone know how they actually did that survey? Like someone just goes out for days at a time and looks?

tfourb 3y ago

Not sure how it went in that specific case but yes, these type of impact studies are usually hands on, you go out into the field with a bunch of people and comb an area completely. In case of a chip factory currently developed by Intel in Germany, they went out onto the 200ha (roughly 280 football fields) and found and resettled 7 rare hamsters. 2 of those had to be dug out: https://www.mdr.de/nachrichten/sachsen-anhalt/magdeburg/magdeburg/intel-eulenberg-boerde-hamster-umzug-100.html https://www.mdr.de/nachrichten/sachsen-anhalt/magdeburg/magd...

nharada 3y ago
That's pretty wild. Do you much about this? It's kinda related to a project I'm working on and I'd be interested in chatting if so!
- tfourb 3y ago
  Not really. I’ve done academic fieldwork before but not specifically this type of environmental impact study.
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  For what it is worth, a lot of environmental work is very hands on. I have a friend who's full time job was to walk in front of tractors and make sure they don't run over snakes. Another who's job was part of a large team with the job walk power lines under construction and make sure birds don't nest in them. If they did nest, the construction project would be on hold for a year.
araes 3y ago
That story is one of the weirder stories I've read on Hacker News recently. Cute though: "The last hamster of the fields gave a timid crow when Alexander Resetaritz drew it out of the construction on his paw and pushed it into the transport box."
- tfourb 3y ago
  This type of environmental mitigation is pretty common here in Germany. I'm currently working with a local organization that wants to revitalize an old water mill barn from the 1700s (I think). It's currently in a really bad shape but to even start the permitting process to put a new roof on it, we need a qualified person doing an environmental impact study, making sure that there are no rare bats or owls hanging out in the rafters. It's actually not that big of a deal, they basically go in, look closely for any signs of these animals and make a few photos, the actual report is only a page or so. But if there were any of those animals, they'd have to be professionally removed and resettled elsewhere and the new construction would likely have to be adapted to continue to offer habitats.
pixl97 3y ago
I wonder how much identification of different floria could be done by hi-def drone capture of an area then image identification of different species could be done these days? I could see things like hamsters being more difficult as small mammals tend to hide to avoid being prey.
- tfourb 3y ago
  The problem as you say likely being that the drone shares properties with predatory birds that make hamsters scurry away ;-). Many endangered plants won't be visible from above due to other, larger plants and you'd need millimeter resolution or better. I wouldn't underestimate how effective experienced and qualified humans can be in finding and interpreting signs of the presence of a small number of specific species in a large area. Drones and AI will probably get there at some point, but I doubt that its close.

doodlebugging 3y ago

Back in the day I worked on seismic field crews in that region. Each crew had field archaeologists and biologists and representatives from the tribes and Bureau of Land Management working closely with us to insure that we followed all procedures to protect sensitive areas from disturbance. That meant in practice that local or BLM archaeologists and biologists led the way across the area where we intended to acquire data. Just as you see in the photos in the linked presentation (user 1970-01-01), teams of experts surveyed the land looking for sensitive or threatened plants and animals and archaeologists identified areas with cultural artifacts. These areas were flagged and that flagging placed them off limits to our operations. They were No-Go areas. We had permission to operate within a fairly narrow easement across the landscape with strict guidelines about vehicle access, allowable damage to existing vegetation and the landscape, trash removal, etc since that region is very arid and small things like orange peels become items that are recognizable centuries after they are discarded. For this survey I expect that they staked the potential affected area and walked every bit of it using pin flags to mark things that are not to be disturbed. The area is only about 8 square miles so it shouldn't take that long.

KennyBlanken 3y ago

Satellite/aerial imagery followed by more accurate surveying where necessary.