5 ms·

Electron-based apps are not PWAs. PWAs do not need to be wrapped in a browser engine of their own, they use the installed browser engine. They are not inherentl

by agust 3y ago

Electron-based apps are not PWAs. PWAs do not need to be wrapped in a browser engine of their own, they use the installed browser engine. They are not inherently bloated or resource-intensive in any way. There are not many good example of great PWAs precisely because Apple has been crippling web capabilities on iOS by banning other engines and degrading the experience in Safari for a decade.

troupo 3y ago
Just as I said: you add a P in front of web apps, suddenly as if by magic all the issues disappear. > PWAs do not need to be wrapped in a browser engine of their own, they use the installed browser engine. Ah yes, they don't need a browser engine, they just need a browser engine > They are not inherently bloated or resource-intensive in any way. So, let me get it straight. A web app running inside a web browser engine is bloated, slow, and non-performant when it's on desktop. But the moment you put it on mobile it's not? > There are not many good example of great PWAs precisely because Apple has been crippling web capabilities on iOS by banning other engines Two notes: - Which of the features that Apple "crippled" will help web apps not be bloated, non-performant, slow, with bad UI etc.? Is it the lack of an install banner that makes a web app struggle to display even a static text with any semblance of performance? Is it the lack of push of notifications that make Google say: okay, we give up, most sites load in over 2.5 seconds now, so we assume anything faster than that is a win [1]? Is it <the list is frankly endless>... - Android has been a dominant mobile OS for over a decade with "non-crippled" PWA support. Where are the not inherently bloated non-resource-intensive web apps we've been hearing about? Please say Twitter :)) [1] https://blog.chromium.org/2020/05/the-science-behind-web-vitals.html https://blog.chromium.org/2020/05/the-science-behind-web-vit...
- Ezhik 3y ago
  I personally prefer native apps, but there are some nice things I can (could) do with web apps that I can't with native ones, like adding multiple copies of a PWA to use with different accounts or creating personal web apps without needing to go through the app store approval process (all it took was a web page with some meta tags). The second one especially stings - Apple might be throwing out a perfectly fine feature that I used a lot. Not everything needs to be on the app store - what exactly can I do now to put an icon on the home screen for a user base of 5 people? Something like this would never pass app review.
- Turing_Machine 3y ago
  Web apps and Electron apps are two different things. Entirely. > So, let me get it straight. A web app running inside a web browser engine is bloated, slow, and non-performant when it's on desktop. But the moment you put it on mobile it's not? A web app doesn't require that you bundle an entire Chrome runtime with the app. There's a lot of your "bloated" right there. You've been told this several times, so it seems that you're being deliberately obtuse. As far as "slow and bloated" as a whole, my (several years old) phone has 64 GB of storage, a hexacore 3.22 Ghz CPU and a quad-core GPU. I. Just. Don't. Care. I'm old enough to remember the exact same "slow and bloated" crapola when programs written in C (and, at that time, Pascal) started replacing hand-coded ASM. Now, modern C compilers are pretty whizzy, but at that time coding in C entailed a significant size and speed penalty. Are you still writing in hand-coded ASM? Yeah, that's what I thought. If you don't want to use web apps, or Electron apps, don't use them. No one's forcing you to use them at gunpoint, mang. Better yet, write your own "fast and slim" apps and take away the market for the "slow and bloated" ones.
  - troupo 3y ago
    > There's a lot of your "bloated" right there. You've been told this several times, so it seems that you're being deliberately obtuse. I also use "web apps" in the browser. I struggle to find a single one that doesn't fit the description. Well, I know some, but when ask people like you to give examples, there's either silence or some ridiculous thing that only proves my point. > I. Just. Don't. Care. Indeed > I'm old enough to remember the exact same "slow and bloated" crapola when programs written in C Non-sequitur > If you don't want to use web apps, or Electron apps, don't use them. I would if devs like you didn't have your attitude of not caring and shipped other than shit > Better yet, write your own "fast and slim" apps and take away the market for the "slow and bloated" ones. What's stopping you from creating such apps? Just your "I don't care we have supercomputers so I'll use the technology that struggles to even display some static text on it"?
    - szasamasa 3y ago
      try hover.com it is a responsive website, they do not have native apps, you can still use it on a phone I just checked you can use it standalone if you want to, I myself choose to use this website from the browser on linux... but I actually "installed" it on android and if I used my mobile more, I might just want to use this "app" this way every website is a potential web app if written responding to screen sizes correctly inherently nothing is bloated... actually, I do not really understand why you hate web apps that much, just do not use them! use them in your favourite browser or whatever whether a sotware shit or not, depends on the developer, not whether it is c++, java, swift, android-java or js...

by agust 3y ago

troupo 3y ago

Just as I said: you add a P in front of web apps, suddenly as if by magic all the issues disappear. > PWAs do not need to be wrapped in a browser engine of their own, they use the installed browser engine. Ah yes, they don't need a browser engine, they just need a browser engine > They are not inherently bloated or resource-intensive in any way. So, let me get it straight. A web app running inside a web browser engine is bloated, slow, and non-performant when it's on desktop. But the moment you put it on mobile it's not? > There are not many good example of great PWAs precisely because Apple has been crippling web capabilities on iOS by banning other engines Two notes: - Which of the features that Apple "crippled" will help web apps not be bloated, non-performant, slow, with bad UI etc.? Is it the lack of an install banner that makes a web app struggle to display even a static text with any semblance of performance? Is it the lack of push of notifications that make Google say: okay, we give up, most sites load in over 2.5 seconds now, so we assume anything faster than that is a win [1]? Is it <the list is frankly endless>... - Android has been a dominant mobile OS for over a decade with "non-crippled" PWA support. Where are the not inherently bloated non-resource-intensive web apps we've been hearing about? Please say Twitter :)) [1] https://blog.chromium.org/2020/05/the-science-behind-web-vitals.html https://blog.chromium.org/2020/05/the-science-behind-web-vit...

Ezhik 3y ago
I personally prefer native apps, but there are some nice things I can (could) do with web apps that I can't with native ones, like adding multiple copies of a PWA to use with different accounts or creating personal web apps without needing to go through the app store approval process (all it took was a web page with some meta tags). The second one especially stings - Apple might be throwing out a perfectly fine feature that I used a lot. Not everything needs to be on the app store - what exactly can I do now to put an icon on the home screen for a user base of 5 people? Something like this would never pass app review.
Turing_Machine 3y ago
Web apps and Electron apps are two different things. Entirely. > So, let me get it straight. A web app running inside a web browser engine is bloated, slow, and non-performant when it's on desktop. But the moment you put it on mobile it's not? A web app doesn't require that you bundle an entire Chrome runtime with the app. There's a lot of your "bloated" right there. You've been told this several times, so it seems that you're being deliberately obtuse. As far as "slow and bloated" as a whole, my (several years old) phone has 64 GB of storage, a hexacore 3.22 Ghz CPU and a quad-core GPU. I. Just. Don't. Care. I'm old enough to remember the exact same "slow and bloated" crapola when programs written in C (and, at that time, Pascal) started replacing hand-coded ASM. Now, modern C compilers are pretty whizzy, but at that time coding in C entailed a significant size and speed penalty. Are you still writing in hand-coded ASM? Yeah, that's what I thought. If you don't want to use web apps, or Electron apps, don't use them. No one's forcing you to use them at gunpoint, mang. Better yet, write your own "fast and slim" apps and take away the market for the "slow and bloated" ones.
- troupo 3y ago
  > There's a lot of your "bloated" right there. You've been told this several times, so it seems that you're being deliberately obtuse. I also use "web apps" in the browser. I struggle to find a single one that doesn't fit the description. Well, I know some, but when ask people like you to give examples, there's either silence or some ridiculous thing that only proves my point. > I. Just. Don't. Care. Indeed > I'm old enough to remember the exact same "slow and bloated" crapola when programs written in C Non-sequitur > If you don't want to use web apps, or Electron apps, don't use them. I would if devs like you didn't have your attitude of not caring and shipped other than shit > Better yet, write your own "fast and slim" apps and take away the market for the "slow and bloated" ones. What's stopping you from creating such apps? Just your "I don't care we have supercomputers so I'll use the technology that struggles to even display some static text on it"?
  - szasamasa 3y ago
    try hover.com it is a responsive website, they do not have native apps, you can still use it on a phone I just checked you can use it standalone if you want to, I myself choose to use this website from the browser on linux... but I actually "installed" it on android and if I used my mobile more, I might just want to use this "app" this way every website is a potential web app if written responding to screen sizes correctly inherently nothing is bloated... actually, I do not really understand why you hate web apps that much, just do not use them! use them in your favourite browser or whatever whether a sotware shit or not, depends on the developer, not whether it is c++, java, swift, android-java or js...