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Progman: X11 WM modeled after Program Manager from the Windows 3 era
- tomxor 3y agoI'm a long time tiling window manager user but this is very tempting :D [edit] In-case anyone else wanted to know what the exact build dependencies are on Debian, 11 at least: build-essential pkg-config libx11-dev libxft-dev libxext-dev libxpm-dev libgdk-pixbuf-xlib-2.0-dev Does what it says on the tin :) I'm struggling to miss mousing windows around the screen though.
- yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago> Optional HiDPI scaling support to magnify icons and buttons What a beautiful union of past and present:) Having to manually add programs to the menu is a tradeoff; easier to implement and good for control, but more work to set up as a user. I appreciate having reasonable keyboard shortcuts by default and supporting adding more.
- rbanffy 3y agoIf only it could have the OS/2 1.3 look…
- gecko 3y agoIsn't that literally just slightly different colors? I don't remember meaningful differences between OS/2 1.3 and the Windows 3 line. I always thought that was part of why WinOS2 worked well: the Win32 apps looked like the old OS/2 apps, both giving them familiarity and emphasizing they were old.
- SllX 3y agoI was curious about this and looked it up for anyone else who wants to see too: https://www.os2museum.com/wp/os2-history/os2-1-2-and-1-3/ https://www.os2museum.com/wp/os2-history/os2-1-2-and-1-3/ I never used OS/2 and most of what I’ve seen were from the final versions, so I had no idea it basically looked like Windows 3.x in the earliest versions.
- Narishma 3y agoIt's the other way around. Windows 3.x looked like OS/2 1.x
- rbanffy 3y agoThe window borders were grey rather than black. That made a huge difference in the subtleness of the contours. The resizable borders were a bit thinner, IIRC (could be the grey outlines though. I need to play with it for a while.
- mixmastamyk 3y agoLove the real title bars and buttons. SGI 4dwm had one of the best of this style. But I happen to like the taskbar from 95+.
- mysterydip 3y agoSounds like someone needs to make a "windows 3.1 with calmira" wm: http://www.calmira.net/screenshots/gaby_c.htm http://www.calmira.net/screenshots/gaby_c.htm
- mixmastamyk 3y agoForgot to mention the draggable window edges that you can see.
- h4ch1 3y agohttps://github.com/jcs/progman/commit/7b707c32dcf0842c55de29fc3f59757bca59f262 https://github.com/jcs/progman/commit/7b707c32dcf0842c55de29... https://github.com/jcs/progman/commit/024a5d086657a70b5303d162a3fe7beb1cfff0ab https://github.com/jcs/progman/commit/024a5d086657a70b5303d1... https://github.com/jcs/progman/commit/3a427653be2d5117e162da87bc1a02c2ae71947f https://github.com/jcs/progman/commit/3a427653be2d5117e162da... I'd be giving these commit messages as examples of great commit messages. Honorable mention xd: https://github.com/jcs/progman/commit/bd91f0f091c4656c246e7db68ea4db5b1aa7a25b https://github.com/jcs/progman/commit/bd91f0f091c4656c246e7d...
- progman32 3y agoFinally I can fulfill my username's destiny and compile a 32 bit version of this. If this supported virtual desktops I might actually daily drive this on my laptop.
- Dalewyn 3y agoFun trivia of the day: Program Manager existed as a 32-bit binary from Windows NT 3.1 through Windows XP SP1. Yes, you could get Windows XP SP1 to boot into Program Manager instead of Explorer if you so desired, and I would wager probably through Windows 10 32-bit too if you copied over the required files.
- BirAdam 3y agoI actually used that too, and then SP2 blew it away, so I left Windows for Linux.
- bayindirh 3y agoIt says it comes with 10 virtual desktops out of the box. Use <alt> + [1..0] or scroll on the desktop.
- EasyMark 3y agowould be fun on airplanes or coffee shops where bored people will look at your screen and see how many conversations you can strike up :D
- remoquete 3y agoOf course it has Hot Dog Stand as a theme. :-)
- peter-m80 3y agoWould love a wm with the BeOS look
- gattilorenz 3y agoWell, not a wm, but would a theme for XFCE interest you? https://old.reddit.com/r/unixporn/comments/90gx5u/xfce4_beosr5xfce/ https://old.reddit.com/r/unixporn/comments/90gx5u/xfce4_beos...
- mrweasel 3y agoThe /r/unixporn is a really weird place, in this case it's XFCE, so I feel like it makes more sense, but the most riced up desktops people post are always Sway, i3, dwm and similar. They are minimalist window managers, yet people go out of their way to customize them.
- prmoustache 3y agoCan we avoid xenophobic slangs please?
- mrweasel 3y agoSure, wasn't actually aware that it was xenophobic, still not really sure why it is. What you would suggest as an equally colorful and descriptive?
- Dalewyn 3y agoI'm Japanese, assuming that guy was referring to the use of "rice" I can advise you to just ignore him. You're fine, food isn't racist.
- jpk 3y agoI assume you're referring to "rice". In the car scene, it stands for "race inspired cosmetic enhancement" and it's typically used to refer to things that make a car look fast without actually making it so. (Think big spoilers, non-functional intake scoops, etc.). The term is used here to express a similar sentiment; a desktop environment that's made to take pretty screenshots but not necessarily be more functional, or enhance a certain workflow.
- jdksjdoejd 3y ago[flagged]
- wkat4242 3y agoWell put, very insightful comment /s
- wkat4242 3y agoThis is basically how the first releases of fvwm worked :) in fact most early window managers.
- hulitu 3y agoMost early window managers, including fvwm, were configurable, with few hardcoded defaults.
- rcarmo 3y agoI approve of this UI.
- Ezhik 3y agoI wonder if there's a pixel-perfect Win95 WM out there.
- LeoPanthera 3y agoThis poor soul has been maintaining Fvwm95 all on their own: https://flaterco.com/util/index.html https://flaterco.com/util/index.html
- fsiefken 3y agoXFCE total conversion https://github.com/grassmunk/Chicago95 https://github.com/grassmunk/Chicago95 Chicago was the code name for the development version of the highly anticipated Windows95
- massifist 3y agoI has always assumed Program Manager's window decorations were inspired by Motif but apparently it was the other way around, regarding Presentation Manager; Program Manager's ancestor. "Motif was directly inspired by the look and feel of the Presentation Manager interface" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presentation_Manager#Presentation_Manager_for_Unix https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presentation_Manager#Presentat...
- cmrdporcupine 3y agoIn this day and age I think the mock-3d stuff in Motif looks gaudier than the classic look of both the Win 3.11 interface and the OS/2 Presentation Manager.
- jhbadger 3y agoi think the "mock 3d" stuff was ultimately inspired by NextStep (1988), although they did it in a classier way than Windows, Motif, or the Mac (either in the late classic (8 or 9) or OSX)
- cmrdporcupine 3y agoYeah I made this same point a few days ago on a similar topic about the use of the win95 style in SerenityOS, etc. I remember back when NeXTstep was new, really lusting over one, but all I had was my little Atari ST.. and spending many hours writing up pretend 3d relief widgets in GFA Basic on it. We were in love with our colour palettes and the illusions they could give :-) I loved the NeXT interface for years but it feels stylistically over the top to me now. Love the draggable menus tho. Another GUI that had 3d relief that I feel did it really nice was Sun's OpenLook style. I used olwm as my window manager for many years. Always preferred that over Motif.
- LeFantome 3y agoI still love the look of NeXTstep. I never liked the scroll bars though even though they make logical sense. A surprising amount of the original UI survives into macOS.
- qwertfisch 3y agoThis is the window managing part which handles decoration and displays running applications as desktop icons if minimized. But where is the Program Manager?
- gattilorenz 3y agoI suspect this commit is for you :) https://github.com/jcs/progman/commit/bd91f0f091c4656c246e7db68ea4db5b1aa7a25b https://github.com/jcs/progman/commit/bd91f0f091c4656c246e7d...
- qwertfisch 3y agoThanks. :) The developer surely knew that there would be people that asked for the Program Manager, because it wasn't only a name for the desktop itself (like the Explorer with additional file manager windows). It was Windows. If you closed the Program Manager application, you were prompted a message box "Wanna exit Windows?" So there's a difference between implementing Windows 3 style desktop, and implementing the Program Manager (as kind of an early Start Menu).
- gattilorenz 3y agoOh I agree, indeed PM can be replaced by Calmira but the windows will look the same
- agumonkey 3y agoIt would surprisingly fit some 2020s aesthetic trends (or maybe we're just cycling)
- badsectoracula 3y agoThis is neat but, TBH, i expected a recreation of the actual Program Manager (i.e. the launcher with the groups and icons) :-P AFAIK back in the 90s there was some (proprietary, i think) Motif based program that looked very similar to Program Manager and some Linux distributions bundled it. It'd be trivial to make something like it with -e.g.- Lazarus, especially if the subwindows/MDI part isn't needed and instead launch toplevel windows (which IMO is a better idea anyway as you can nest them, something i always felt was missing from the Win3.x Program Manager). EDIT: for fun i tried to setup a Win3.1 theme for Gtk and put Lazarus (in a separate user account) with this window manager. It looks nice[0] though the WM seems to be lacking support for some common features for setting up window appearance (e.g. the completion window in the screenshot has a frame when it shouldn't and the window doesn't disappear but instead its contents become black - this happens for any window that is expected to remain around but hidden). https://i.imgur.com/Hpieb0g.png https://i.imgur.com/Hpieb0g.png
- rogerbinns 3y agoThe company I worked at IXI [1] was the leading provider of Motif. We took the official release, fixed all the bugs, documented it, and sold it with most companies using Unix workstations buying licenses. We also did better versions of the window manager and file/program manager. We had a product named Wintif that gave the Windows 3 look and feel to any Unix program using Motif, without any code changes to the program. The theory was you would display the Unix programs on a Windows PC running an X server, and they would look and feel like native Windows programs. See a glorious screenshot at [2] where all the programs and window manager are running on Unix using Wintif. What happened is the Unix workstation market and hence Unix GUI applications rapidly diminished in favour of native Windows applications, with web applications taking off (and what we pivoted to). You'll notice the screenshot includes our version of Mosaic - the first mainstream web browser. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IXI_Limited https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IXI_Limited [2] https://www.flickr.com/photos/avaragado/5334440376/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/avaragado/5334440376/
- badsectoracula 3y agoJudging from the links in the Wikipedia page and the other reply to my post, i think it was Looking Glass what i remembered, but this was also very interesting (especially the part about modifying Motif to look like Windows 3.1) :-). Sometimes i wonder how hard it'd be to modify OpenMotif to add theme support.
- haolez 3y agoOn a side note, I wonder if Wayland made it more difficult to have this kind of silly experimentation. X11, despite the legendary bad code quality, is a big leverage for lone coder.
- philsnow 3y agoI have used Mac laptops as my daily driver for the last ten years after being a ride-or-die Linux guy for the 15 years before that. I’m still more comfortable on Linux systems, though. Some things I dearly miss, in no particular order: 1) complete control over window management, an embarrassment of riches in terms of amazing and wacky window managers 2) {s,p, (and much later) d}trace; there are probably similar tools on Mac but I don’t need them badly enough to find and learn them —- but I know just enough about them in Linux-land to investigate frustrating things ... I thought there would be more when I started typing, but that might be it.
- animatethrow 3y agoNowadays how well are old-school X11 window managers doing necessary interop with the desktop bus to keep modern GTK/QT apps rendering correctly on 4K HiDPI screens? I was forced to give up on FVWM because tweaking my X resources Xft.dpi and GDK_SCALE settings for one app such as firefox in order to get it rendering correctly on a 4K screen would break other apps. Firefox only seemed to do HiDPI correctly when run under a full GNOME desktop that provides the dbus messages it is assuming to set the 200% font size and UI scale correctly. Is there a way to run an old-school X11 WM now that allows snaps/flatpacks/GNOME-bloat dbus apps to run without issue with 200% scaling on 4K screens?
- peter_d_sherman 3y agoLooks nice and simple (a good thing, not a bad thing) -- which would make it excellent for educational purposes (as well as tiny/embedded and/or highly secure systems)! Kudos on the work! Great job!
- hestefisk 3y agoReminds me a bit of icewm. Very nice work.
- vfclists 3y agoResizing handles you can get a grip on. Yaay!!
- musicale 3y agoVisible, discoverable UI control elements are (were?) such a nice thing. (I believe Apple also once endorsed those principles... until they decided to abandon them.) I wish there were a way of turning visible controls back on in macOS/Windows/Ubuntu. Perhaps KDE still has them?