5 ms·

There's plenty of successful "classical" propaganda in the modern era, like Tucker Carlson interviewing Putin, and his subsequently tweeting about how much bett

by naet 3y ago

There's plenty of successful "classical" propaganda in the modern era, like Tucker Carlson interviewing Putin, and his subsequently tweeting about how much better the cities/subways/groceries/MacDonalds are in Russia than they are in America. I like to browse both far left and far right social media to see what different circles are talking about, and a lot of the far right are coming around to be pro Russia (way more than I would have ever expected given US history). There's also the conservative house representatives majority who are likely to continue blocking any additional military aid to the Ukraine. So on a whole it seems to me that Russian government has been highly effective at advancing their political agenda within the USA recently.

dralley 3y ago
>There's plenty of successful "classical" propaganda in the modern era, like Tucker Carlson interviewing Putin, and his subsequently tweeting about how much better the cities/subways/groceries/MacDonalds are in Russia than they are in America. I'm not sure that's actually successful. Even a lot of conservatives seem put off by Tucker's recent activities, especially with the Navalny news today.
- richbell 3y ago
  His part about groceries has resonated with a lot of people. "Biden has destroyed the US, and groceries that cost easily $400+ only cost $100 in Russia." Of course, he made no mention of how much $100 is to the average Russian's income proportional to the average American's income.
  - internet2000 3y ago
    It's astonishing how easy it is to get people to forget about purchasing power. Even here in HN you often see people use that in "they don't make 'em like they used to" type threads.
    - ape_key 3y ago
      Inflation just turns people’s brains off. Some of us just panic and react without thinking about why food is getting more expensive or what policies will improve the world for us now and our children in the future. When people are hangry, they vote for the loudest monkey.
- atoav 3y ago
  As far as I know this is kind of the strategy of Russian propaganda. I would not be surprised if killing Navalny was done purposely shortly after the Tucker interview. For a MAGA follower (if they ever hear about it and even know who Navalny is) such combinations induce a cognitive dissonance, which translates either into dispair or into open support of Putin after he killed his major critic, either way it would be a win. And the other side of US politics is in dispair wittnessing how the MAGA crowd handles this, which (from Putins point of view) hopefully makes people stresses enough about politics that they just don't want to hear it anymore. This idea of confusion and despair is how he managed to get the Russians to stay so apolitical after a short optimistic phase in the 90s. Better not think about it — this is the message.
  - tivert 3y ago
    >> I'm not sure that's actually successful. Even a lot of conservatives seem put off by Tucker's recent activities, especially with the Navalny news today. > As far as I know this is kind of the strategy of Russian propaganda. I would not be surprised if killing Navalny was done purposely shortly after the Tucker interview. Another data point: Putin is now putting down Carlson: > Speaking with a state television host, Mr. Putin said he was disappointed that Mr. Carlson had not asked “so-called sharp questions” because he wanted the opportunity to “respond sharply” in his own answers. > “He turned out to be patient and listened to my lengthy dialogues, especially those related to history, and didn’t give me reason to do what I was ready for,” Mr. Putin said. “So, frankly, I didn’t get complete satisfaction from this interview.” ... > Mr. Putin’s mockery of Mr. Carlson came as the former Fox host was basking in the aftermath of his interview by offering a steady stream of praise for Russia and Mr. Putin, whose leadership he has extolled as superior to Mr. Biden’s. (https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/16/business/media/tucker-carlson-putin-navalny.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/16/business/media/tucker-car...)
    - dralley 3y ago
      I'm not sure that's for propaganda purposes, tbh, so much as Putin genuinely deeply disrespects Carlson even while making him a useful tool. On one hand you have a KGB guy, who has for decades promoted himself as loyal-to-the-end, burning documents in East Germany while the wall was falling and Moscow wasn't picking up the phones with his colleagues nowhere to be found. And who has gone to great lengths (like using chemical weapons on UK soil) to punish people he sees as traitors. And on the other hand you have Tucker, a CIA reject who is now running interference against his own nation's interests, who presents himself as a journalist while knowing less about Putin than Putin knows about him, and who was as intrepid as a wet noodle in that interview. Putin made him wait for 2 hours before it even started. I think he just enjoys dunking on people.
- anigbrowl 3y ago
  I can't help wondering if Putin knew Navalny was going to die (perhaps with official assistance) and amused himself by using Carlson to pull the spotlight in his direction. I've seen a few political influencers who reliably follow a pattern of saying something abjectly stupid/offensive which draws mockery and attention for a week or two, and just when this attention is waning, saying something else of more substance which gets widely circulated by the same attention network. If one has a thick skin for hostile criticism, it's a great amplification technique.
dilawar 3y ago
This is some turn of events! Americans loving commies!!
- vondur 3y ago
  I don’t think the Russians are communists now. I think it’s pretty obvious that Putin wants to bring back something similar to the Russian Empire with him as the Tsar. Bringing back Autocracy with the Orthodox Church too.
  - Animats 3y ago
    No, communists no more. Communism at least tried to benefit the working class. Putin is a straight-up autocrat. Putin views the communist era as a mistake between two eras of glorious empire.
roenxi 3y ago
> a lot of the far right are coming around to be pro Russia Pro-Russia or pro-US? The alt-right stance I've been seeing is that the war accomplishes nothing, introduces a lot of needless risks and wastes resources better spent elsewhere. It looks like all the US is achieving is piles of dead Slavs. That isn't wealth generation or strategically useful. It has been decades since US foreign interventions have done anything useful for the US, the base rate here leans strongly towards pacifism being the most effective strategy. Even in the Russia-Ukraine war, I've been arguing that this gives China opportunities more than anything else. Hopefully the CCP are too inept to seize on them.
- distortionfield 3y ago
  There’s definitely a sizeable chunk of pro-Russia in right wing circles. I’m reminded of those “I’d rather be a Russian than a Democrat” t-shirts that were popular in Republican circles from the 2016 election.
  - latency-guy2 3y ago
    I think that demonstrates relative hatred of Democrats, not love of Russia You might liken it to vowing to never voting Republican, even if you agree on some issues
    - distortionfield 3y ago
      I would agree if it wasn’t for the wave of Russian apologia that accompanied Republican talking points during the Trump administration.
    - karmakurtisaani 3y ago
      > I think that demonstrates relative hatred of Democrats, not love of Russia It cleverly uses the hate for democrats to push for the love for Russia. Once you normalize this line of thinking, Russia is seen in a more favourable light by anyone who falls for it.
      - 3y ago

by naet 3y ago

dralley 3y ago

>There's plenty of successful "classical" propaganda in the modern era, like Tucker Carlson interviewing Putin, and his subsequently tweeting about how much better the cities/subways/groceries/MacDonalds are in Russia than they are in America. I'm not sure that's actually successful. Even a lot of conservatives seem put off by Tucker's recent activities, especially with the Navalny news today.

richbell 3y ago
His part about groceries has resonated with a lot of people. "Biden has destroyed the US, and groceries that cost easily $400+ only cost $100 in Russia." Of course, he made no mention of how much $100 is to the average Russian's income proportional to the average American's income.
- internet2000 3y ago
  It's astonishing how easy it is to get people to forget about purchasing power. Even here in HN you often see people use that in "they don't make 'em like they used to" type threads.
  - ape_key 3y ago
    Inflation just turns people’s brains off. Some of us just panic and react without thinking about why food is getting more expensive or what policies will improve the world for us now and our children in the future. When people are hangry, they vote for the loudest monkey.
atoav 3y ago
As far as I know this is kind of the strategy of Russian propaganda. I would not be surprised if killing Navalny was done purposely shortly after the Tucker interview. For a MAGA follower (if they ever hear about it and even know who Navalny is) such combinations induce a cognitive dissonance, which translates either into dispair or into open support of Putin after he killed his major critic, either way it would be a win. And the other side of US politics is in dispair wittnessing how the MAGA crowd handles this, which (from Putins point of view) hopefully makes people stresses enough about politics that they just don't want to hear it anymore. This idea of confusion and despair is how he managed to get the Russians to stay so apolitical after a short optimistic phase in the 90s. Better not think about it — this is the message.
- tivert 3y ago
  >> I'm not sure that's actually successful. Even a lot of conservatives seem put off by Tucker's recent activities, especially with the Navalny news today. > As far as I know this is kind of the strategy of Russian propaganda. I would not be surprised if killing Navalny was done purposely shortly after the Tucker interview. Another data point: Putin is now putting down Carlson: > Speaking with a state television host, Mr. Putin said he was disappointed that Mr. Carlson had not asked “so-called sharp questions” because he wanted the opportunity to “respond sharply” in his own answers. > “He turned out to be patient and listened to my lengthy dialogues, especially those related to history, and didn’t give me reason to do what I was ready for,” Mr. Putin said. “So, frankly, I didn’t get complete satisfaction from this interview.” ... > Mr. Putin’s mockery of Mr. Carlson came as the former Fox host was basking in the aftermath of his interview by offering a steady stream of praise for Russia and Mr. Putin, whose leadership he has extolled as superior to Mr. Biden’s. (https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/16/business/media/tucker-carlson-putin-navalny.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/16/business/media/tucker-car...)
  - dralley 3y ago
    I'm not sure that's for propaganda purposes, tbh, so much as Putin genuinely deeply disrespects Carlson even while making him a useful tool. On one hand you have a KGB guy, who has for decades promoted himself as loyal-to-the-end, burning documents in East Germany while the wall was falling and Moscow wasn't picking up the phones with his colleagues nowhere to be found. And who has gone to great lengths (like using chemical weapons on UK soil) to punish people he sees as traitors. And on the other hand you have Tucker, a CIA reject who is now running interference against his own nation's interests, who presents himself as a journalist while knowing less about Putin than Putin knows about him, and who was as intrepid as a wet noodle in that interview. Putin made him wait for 2 hours before it even started. I think he just enjoys dunking on people.
anigbrowl 3y ago
I can't help wondering if Putin knew Navalny was going to die (perhaps with official assistance) and amused himself by using Carlson to pull the spotlight in his direction. I've seen a few political influencers who reliably follow a pattern of saying something abjectly stupid/offensive which draws mockery and attention for a week or two, and just when this attention is waning, saying something else of more substance which gets widely circulated by the same attention network. If one has a thick skin for hostile criticism, it's a great amplification technique.

dilawar 3y ago

This is some turn of events! Americans loving commies!!

vondur 3y ago
I don’t think the Russians are communists now. I think it’s pretty obvious that Putin wants to bring back something similar to the Russian Empire with him as the Tsar. Bringing back Autocracy with the Orthodox Church too.
- Animats 3y ago
  No, communists no more. Communism at least tried to benefit the working class. Putin is a straight-up autocrat. Putin views the communist era as a mistake between two eras of glorious empire.

roenxi 3y ago

> a lot of the far right are coming around to be pro Russia Pro-Russia or pro-US? The alt-right stance I've been seeing is that the war accomplishes nothing, introduces a lot of needless risks and wastes resources better spent elsewhere. It looks like all the US is achieving is piles of dead Slavs. That isn't wealth generation or strategically useful. It has been decades since US foreign interventions have done anything useful for the US, the base rate here leans strongly towards pacifism being the most effective strategy. Even in the Russia-Ukraine war, I've been arguing that this gives China opportunities more than anything else. Hopefully the CCP are too inept to seize on them.

distortionfield 3y ago
There’s definitely a sizeable chunk of pro-Russia in right wing circles. I’m reminded of those “I’d rather be a Russian than a Democrat” t-shirts that were popular in Republican circles from the 2016 election.
- latency-guy2 3y ago
  I think that demonstrates relative hatred of Democrats, not love of Russia You might liken it to vowing to never voting Republican, even if you agree on some issues
  - distortionfield 3y ago
    I would agree if it wasn’t for the wave of Russian apologia that accompanied Republican talking points during the Trump administration.
  - karmakurtisaani 3y ago
    > I think that demonstrates relative hatred of Democrats, not love of Russia It cleverly uses the hate for democrats to push for the love for Russia. Once you normalize this line of thinking, Russia is seen in a more favourable light by anyone who falls for it.
    - 3y ago