4 ms·

I suspect that in order to mangle with election one should have elections in the first place, so I guess that its not possible for other governments to do the s

I suspect that in order to mangle with election one should have elections in the first place, so I guess that its not possible for other governments to do the same on the Chinese internet

echelon 3y ago
America used to win in such circumstances based on the power of its media exports. Hollywood. The music industry. American ideals advertised though the lens of culture. Now we're beginning to approach fungible with domestic content production in every market. And the US domestic market is now often funded by international interests. China-backed films highlight the intelligence and cunning of Chinese citizens, which often provide critical advice or technology to the dumb action-oriented Americans [1]. When's the last time China was an adversary in a film? Or that the henchmen or Bond villain was Chinese? It's always gotta be an Arabic, Persian, North Korean, or Russian villain. [1] Independence Day, The Trench, etc. etc.
- dullcrisp 3y ago
  Yeah way to lose the race war, Hollywood.
- nirui 3y ago
  > America used to win in such circumstances It looked like that you're treating Hollywood-style cultural export as competition, and your conclusion is "America is losing control because of the involvements from China-backed films", believing the evidence is clear given how rare China was shown as "an adversary in a film"? If what you said were pure true, that "US domestic market is now often funded by international interests" is the reason for current reality, which in turn implies that "US domestic market" is a complete sellout, then why Hollywood won't accept investments from the Persians, and then introduce some Persian superheros that sometimes randomly goes "Allahu Akbar"? The are huge money in this, why the US domestic market won't make it happen? Maybe you're looking at the wrong direction. Maybe Hollywood (and US culture) is losing it's shine because by now, thanks to the Internet and medias (Vox, Vice, John Oliver etc), people starts to see the reality that America, behind all it's sparkling glares, also has quite a few flaws. Maybe China don't often get picked as an adversary simply because Americans just subjectively don't hate Chinese THAT much. Here's my perspective as a Chinese: the exporting of cultural is more of a test than competition. It's a tool that communicates the cultural aspect of the exporter, to see if the importer welcomes it. It's a good tool if you want to infer the inner compatibility of the two parties, but it does very little beyond that. Just to knock you out of your "winning" mindset: the movie Saving Private Ryan maybe resonate very well amongst Americans, after all, it's an true American hero doing American hero things. But in Chinese people's eyes (the eyes of the rest of the world, really) the movie just don't feel the same. Everyone got their own heros back home, you know? Funny enough, after watching the firm, I asked some of my friends whether or not they will save their soldier colleagues under similar situation showed in the firm, many of them answered solidly "Yes". To clarify, they were not thinking about saving Mr Ryan, instead, they were thinking about saving CHINESE soldiers Mr Zhao, Mr Qian, Mr Sun and/or Mr Li, maybe even under direct gun fire from Mr Ryan. That's something you might want to think about the next time you bring up your theories on the "victory" of America media exports ;-)
  - echelon 3y ago
    > It looked like that you're treating Hollywood-style cultural export as competition Because it 1000% is, and China is engaging in the same game today. > Hollywood won't accept investments from the Persians, It absolutely would. Money can buy access. China has been one of the only countries to spend in this way for this access. Hollywood is dying. Americans are more interested in video games, Instagram, YouTube, and the Internet. Hollywood will take money from anyone to save itself. > Maybe Hollywood (and US culture) is losing it's shine because by now, thanks to the Internet and medias (Vox, Vice, John Oliver etc), people starts to see the reality that America, behind all it's sparkling glares, also has quite a few flaws. > Here's my perspective as a Chinese: the exporting of cultural is more of a test than competition. It's a tool that communicates the cultural aspect of the exporter, to see if the importer welcomes it. It's also a test to see how incompatible or divergent our societies have become. Whether due to polarity shifts, indoctrination, or tribalism and team sports. These are the symptom of an underestimated immune system with little else to do. Most of the evils in the world are gone, so we've started chasing down the last mile. We've turned it into entertainment to attract viewers and make money. > To clarify, they were not thinking about saving Mr Ryan, instead, they were thinking about saving CHINESE soldiers Mr Zhao, Mr Qian, Mr Sun and/or Mr Li, maybe even under direct gun fire from Mr Ryan. Tribal thinking at it's finest. I'd save Mr. Ryan and Mr. Zhao. Or at least I think I would. That kind of courage is insane and highly laudable.
    - nirui 3y ago
      > Because it 1000% is, and China is engaging in the same game today. So China is exporting it's movie such as the Battle of Chosin Reservoir to saturate America market with it's propaganda? Can you offer any example of that happening? The truth however, is that as soon as when China steps out of their line, America clamps down really hard. There are real world example of this happening/happened. I'm not really sure why you're painting a picture showing how weak America is when in the reality it's not the case at all. Also, there are way more America heros in the movies than Asian ones. If everything you saw in a movie was just few Asian dudes acting cool, and it got you agitated... then maybe just wait for few years until Hollywood seeks it's new diversity hotness to show off. > Tribal thinking at it's finest. I'd save Mr. Ryan and Mr. Zhao. So, what you were saying is that, it's "Tribalism" if in the story Mr Miller only saved Ryan brothers, but did not but also save German soldier Mr Altenburg, Mr Bachmann and Mr Chmielewski and his 5 month old pet cat who fired at you following their orders? I mean, how do you save someone who's actively endangering your life from a distance? I imagine it would be really hard. Plus, do US soldier really consider to save the life of their opponents in real life during an operation? Not judging anything there, just trying to be realistic.
wongarsu 3y ago
It's not like China has no political system. I don't see why concerted media efforts couldn't have an effect on who gets ahead in the CCP and who doesn't
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- kurthr 3y ago
  Ummm, 100% of votes went to one person and the elderly potential political adversary was led out against his will by the leader's security on live TV as part of the "election". https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/hu-jintao-dragged-out-congress-b2208369.html https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/hu-jintao-dragged-out-... I mean King Henry VIII had parliament ratify his changes to the English church so that he could remarry 5 times.
  - wongarsu 3y ago
    I agree that Chinese elections don't matter. And you won't replace the general secretary in short notice, unlike the US President who changes every couple years. But Xi doesn't rule China alone, the CCP does. And by manipulating the reputation of CCP members you can influence who gets into positions of power and who stays irrelevant, just like in a democracy
    - throwaway2990 3y ago
      > But Xi doesn't rule China alone, the CCP does. Xi has more power than the CCP.
      - kelipso 3y ago
        That's simply not how political power works.
        throwaway2990 3y ago
csa 3y ago
> I suspect that in order to mangle with election one should have elections in the first place There are elections in China, and there have been for many decades. There are other aspects of these elections that make them less likely to succumb to soft influence from the outside. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_China https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_China
- lnxg33k1 3y ago
  Its 1 party and one candidate https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CmkKI8IuynA&pp=ygUTQm9yYXQgZWxlY3Rpb24gdGFuaw%3D%3D https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CmkKI8IuynA&pp=ygUTQm9yYXQgZWx...
- tivert 3y ago
  >> I suspect that in order to mangle with election one should have elections in the first place, so I guess that its not possible for other governments to do the same on the Chinese internet > There are elections in China, and there have been for many decades. There is a reason why the refrain is not just "elections" but "free and fair elections." Communist countries are famous for offering elections with no actual choice. Election interference in China is not possible, because its "elections" are total shams so there is no point to try.

I suspect that in order to mangle with election one should have elections in the first place, so I guess that its not possible for other governments to do the same on the Chinese internet

echelon 3y ago

America used to win in such circumstances based on the power of its media exports. Hollywood. The music industry. American ideals advertised though the lens of culture. Now we're beginning to approach fungible with domestic content production in every market. And the US domestic market is now often funded by international interests. China-backed films highlight the intelligence and cunning of Chinese citizens, which often provide critical advice or technology to the dumb action-oriented Americans [1]. When's the last time China was an adversary in a film? Or that the henchmen or Bond villain was Chinese? It's always gotta be an Arabic, Persian, North Korean, or Russian villain. [1] Independence Day, The Trench, etc. etc.

dullcrisp 3y ago
Yeah way to lose the race war, Hollywood.
nirui 3y ago
> America used to win in such circumstances It looked like that you're treating Hollywood-style cultural export as competition, and your conclusion is "America is losing control because of the involvements from China-backed films", believing the evidence is clear given how rare China was shown as "an adversary in a film"? If what you said were pure true, that "US domestic market is now often funded by international interests" is the reason for current reality, which in turn implies that "US domestic market" is a complete sellout, then why Hollywood won't accept investments from the Persians, and then introduce some Persian superheros that sometimes randomly goes "Allahu Akbar"? The are huge money in this, why the US domestic market won't make it happen? Maybe you're looking at the wrong direction. Maybe Hollywood (and US culture) is losing it's shine because by now, thanks to the Internet and medias (Vox, Vice, John Oliver etc), people starts to see the reality that America, behind all it's sparkling glares, also has quite a few flaws. Maybe China don't often get picked as an adversary simply because Americans just subjectively don't hate Chinese THAT much. Here's my perspective as a Chinese: the exporting of cultural is more of a test than competition. It's a tool that communicates the cultural aspect of the exporter, to see if the importer welcomes it. It's a good tool if you want to infer the inner compatibility of the two parties, but it does very little beyond that. Just to knock you out of your "winning" mindset: the movie Saving Private Ryan maybe resonate very well amongst Americans, after all, it's an true American hero doing American hero things. But in Chinese people's eyes (the eyes of the rest of the world, really) the movie just don't feel the same. Everyone got their own heros back home, you know? Funny enough, after watching the firm, I asked some of my friends whether or not they will save their soldier colleagues under similar situation showed in the firm, many of them answered solidly "Yes". To clarify, they were not thinking about saving Mr Ryan, instead, they were thinking about saving CHINESE soldiers Mr Zhao, Mr Qian, Mr Sun and/or Mr Li, maybe even under direct gun fire from Mr Ryan. That's something you might want to think about the next time you bring up your theories on the "victory" of America media exports ;-)
- echelon 3y ago
  > It looked like that you're treating Hollywood-style cultural export as competition Because it 1000% is, and China is engaging in the same game today. > Hollywood won't accept investments from the Persians, It absolutely would. Money can buy access. China has been one of the only countries to spend in this way for this access. Hollywood is dying. Americans are more interested in video games, Instagram, YouTube, and the Internet. Hollywood will take money from anyone to save itself. > Maybe Hollywood (and US culture) is losing it's shine because by now, thanks to the Internet and medias (Vox, Vice, John Oliver etc), people starts to see the reality that America, behind all it's sparkling glares, also has quite a few flaws. > Here's my perspective as a Chinese: the exporting of cultural is more of a test than competition. It's a tool that communicates the cultural aspect of the exporter, to see if the importer welcomes it. It's also a test to see how incompatible or divergent our societies have become. Whether due to polarity shifts, indoctrination, or tribalism and team sports. These are the symptom of an underestimated immune system with little else to do. Most of the evils in the world are gone, so we've started chasing down the last mile. We've turned it into entertainment to attract viewers and make money. > To clarify, they were not thinking about saving Mr Ryan, instead, they were thinking about saving CHINESE soldiers Mr Zhao, Mr Qian, Mr Sun and/or Mr Li, maybe even under direct gun fire from Mr Ryan. Tribal thinking at it's finest. I'd save Mr. Ryan and Mr. Zhao. Or at least I think I would. That kind of courage is insane and highly laudable.
  - nirui 3y ago
    > Because it 1000% is, and China is engaging in the same game today. So China is exporting it's movie such as the Battle of Chosin Reservoir to saturate America market with it's propaganda? Can you offer any example of that happening? The truth however, is that as soon as when China steps out of their line, America clamps down really hard. There are real world example of this happening/happened. I'm not really sure why you're painting a picture showing how weak America is when in the reality it's not the case at all. Also, there are way more America heros in the movies than Asian ones. If everything you saw in a movie was just few Asian dudes acting cool, and it got you agitated... then maybe just wait for few years until Hollywood seeks it's new diversity hotness to show off. > Tribal thinking at it's finest. I'd save Mr. Ryan and Mr. Zhao. So, what you were saying is that, it's "Tribalism" if in the story Mr Miller only saved Ryan brothers, but did not but also save German soldier Mr Altenburg, Mr Bachmann and Mr Chmielewski and his 5 month old pet cat who fired at you following their orders? I mean, how do you save someone who's actively endangering your life from a distance? I imagine it would be really hard. Plus, do US soldier really consider to save the life of their opponents in real life during an operation? Not judging anything there, just trying to be realistic.

wongarsu 3y ago

It's not like China has no political system. I don't see why concerted media efforts couldn't have an effect on who gets ahead in the CCP and who doesn't

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
kurthr 3y ago
Ummm, 100% of votes went to one person and the elderly potential political adversary was led out against his will by the leader's security on live TV as part of the "election". https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/hu-jintao-dragged-out-congress-b2208369.html https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/hu-jintao-dragged-out-... I mean King Henry VIII had parliament ratify his changes to the English church so that he could remarry 5 times.
- wongarsu 3y ago
  I agree that Chinese elections don't matter. And you won't replace the general secretary in short notice, unlike the US President who changes every couple years. But Xi doesn't rule China alone, the CCP does. And by manipulating the reputation of CCP members you can influence who gets into positions of power and who stays irrelevant, just like in a democracy
  - throwaway2990 3y ago
    > But Xi doesn't rule China alone, the CCP does. Xi has more power than the CCP.
    - kelipso 3y ago
      That's simply not how political power works.
      - throwaway2990 3y ago

csa 3y ago

> I suspect that in order to mangle with election one should have elections in the first place There are elections in China, and there have been for many decades. There are other aspects of these elections that make them less likely to succumb to soft influence from the outside. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_China https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_China

lnxg33k1 3y ago
Its 1 party and one candidate https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CmkKI8IuynA&pp=ygUTQm9yYXQgZWxlY3Rpb24gdGFuaw%3D%3D https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CmkKI8IuynA&pp=ygUTQm9yYXQgZWx...
tivert 3y ago
>> I suspect that in order to mangle with election one should have elections in the first place, so I guess that its not possible for other governments to do the same on the Chinese internet > There are elections in China, and there have been for many decades. There is a reason why the refrain is not just "elections" but "free and fair elections." Communist countries are famous for offering elections with no actual choice. Election interference in China is not possible, because its "elections" are total shams so there is no point to try.