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Scholz. Modern Russia is far better at political subversion than it is at outright conquest. Every country in Europe has captive politicians and far-right part

Scholz. Modern Russia is far better at political subversion than it is at outright conquest. Every country in Europe has captive politicians and far-right parties being funded and enabled by Moscow. Like Germany's AfD which - as a matter of record - has been cultivated, promoted, and steered in a pro-Russian direction. Scholz is clearly playing the same game, obstructing aid to Ukraine in every possible way. Geert Wilders in NL makes anti-Russian noises in public while threatening to cut support to Ukraine. Portugal has Chega, France has National Rally and Le Pen, the UK had Brexit and Boris Johnson - who installed the son of a top KGB operative to the House of Lords. The US has Trump and Maga. And so on. Every single one of these has proven Russian links. Ukraine is just a distraction. The real war has been happening elsewhere. Many leaders - and most voters - still haven't realised what's happening. And should Le Pen win in France and Trump in the US, that would leave the UK's one active nuclear submarine as Europe's sole protection against Russian nuclear threats.

holoduke 3y ago
[flagged]
- jacquesm 3y ago
  Absolutely each and every one of those is far right, borderline fascist and getting more so by the day. There is plenty of evidence of Russian funds bankrolling these (and others), no need to suggest this is a conspiracy. What you believe doesn't really matter.
  - holoduke 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - jacquesm 3y ago
      And Hitler was a vegetarian. What Geert Wilders yells to get votes has zero binding on what he is able to accomplish or really intends to do.
      - holoduke 3y ago
        You should read the party objectives. State media is often a bit biased and even in the west you can fell victim to propoganda.
        jacquesm 3y ago
        You're hilarious. Geert Wilders is a populist, not a politician. The party objectives are Geert Wilders' dog whistles and promises to the gullible, it isn't a serious political party even though it has attracted the largest voting bloc simply because there is no governance structure in place, the party is Geert Wilders, the rest is just window dressing. The idea that 'even in the west[sic] you can fell[sic] victim to propoganda[sic]' is true but it has nothing to do with my view of Wilders, the PVV or the general Dutch political situation. And as for state media, guess what GW wants to get rid of?
        holoduke 3y ago
        [flagged]
        jacquesm 3y ago
        > Big problems with your attitude. Cannot even stay calm. I am immediately addressed as a criminal. Its hilarious. Wrong comment thread?
    - midasz 3y ago
      He's a populist, a liar. PVV has ties and is influenced by the kremlin. Follow the money did a very good investigation. https://www.ftm.nl/artikelen/de-banden-tussen-pvv-en-rusland-zijn-sterker-dan-gedacht https://www.ftm.nl/artikelen/de-banden-tussen-pvv-en-rusland...
    - wkat4242 3y ago
      He talks left but votes right. That's what populists do. They say what people want to hear and then suit themselves.
ivan_gammel 3y ago
So how is this all relevant to what I said?
saiya-jin 3y ago
If you want to bash german politicians for current situation, 100% guilt falls on Angela Merkel. Making 1) Germany ultra weak militarily, you really can't let intellectuals drive whole nations since they have 0 clue about realpolitik, warfare and all those ugly aspects of it, and currently bundeswehr is a pathetic underfunded joke with rotting helmets that even current russian army would roll over without breaking a sweat. 2) a massive push for critical fuel dependency on russia 3) never standing up to that murderer in any way, even as he was killing and invading Georgia and Ukraine He played her and similar to her very efficiently. Of course its nothing compared to masterclass he pulled/will yet pull on Trump. As somebody coming from cca eastern Europe, being enslaved by russian troops after their bloody invasion, western Europe is... to keep things ultra polite - ultra pussies. You simply don't grok how depraved and hardened to cruelty russian mind is, things like fair game are an insult. Also their incredible durability to withstand absolutely horrible treatment, just buckle up and continue. Western sanctions my ass, just make sure any good chips don't work for them somehow because they don't care for the rest. This is the case when you are dealing with mobsters who kill and know only rule of stronger, and you come with your polite smile and handshakes and expect things like keeping their word or contracts. I don't even have such a problem with EU dumb naivety in the past, but what is shocking that they didn't wake up right after invasion and starting putting 10% of GDP into army, to see some effects in 5 years just in time when real stuff starts happening. Every single post-soviet country keeps issuing very strong warnings due to previous horrible expereiences with russian terror, but these are completely ignored on EU level. This is a major long term weakness that will not get unpunished. Yeah, when SHTF its very easy to be ashamed to be from Europe, for quite a few generations.
- jacquesm 3y ago
  100% agreement, it's a complete mess. I think the big mistake is that this was all built on hope and hope is a fantastic way of getting to disappointment. But now what? That's the hard question. It looks like a whole bunch of politicians in the West are in Putin's pocket or at least useful idiots, the populace doesn't give two shits as long as they can watch TV and there is bread and meanwhile the fuse is burning. It's pretty sad that the EU now has to look to Lithuania for their moral compass because they seem to have lost their own.
philwelch 3y ago
Despite a massive investigation there have never been any proven links between Trump and Russia. What’s more, Trump maintained sanctions against Russia and provided military aid to Ukraine. I can’t speak as much to the situation in Europe aside from the obvious conflicts of interest for former chancellor Gerhard Schroeder. Aside from him, I don’t know where to attribute Germany’s fecklessness: it could just as easily be the same weak-kneed pacifism that led Germany to disarm themselves. (Also, I’d point out that, contra your narrative, both Scholtz and Schroeder are members of the center-left SPD and not any far right party.)
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  > Despite a massive investigation there have never been any proven links between Trump and Russia. I suppose there is some narrow definition of links for which that is true. > What’s more, Trump maintained sanctions against Russia He signalled plans to weaken them, and then Congress, by massively veto-proof majorities in both Houses (419-3 House, 98-2 Senate), passed a bill limiting his ability to lift existing sanctions while also adding new sanctions on top. > and provided military aid to Ukraine. He held up Congressionally-mandated aid to try to force a quid pro quo from the Ukrainian government for propaganda to support Trump’s personal political efforts, releasing it only after he became aware that someone had blown the whistle on it.
  - philwelch 3y ago
    > He held up Congressionally-mandated aid to try to force a quid pro quo from the Ukrainian government for propaganda to support Trump’s personal political efforts That’s certainly one possible interpretation of events.

holoduke 3y ago

[flagged]

jacquesm 3y ago
Absolutely each and every one of those is far right, borderline fascist and getting more so by the day. There is plenty of evidence of Russian funds bankrolling these (and others), no need to suggest this is a conspiracy. What you believe doesn't really matter.
- holoduke 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    And Hitler was a vegetarian. What Geert Wilders yells to get votes has zero binding on what he is able to accomplish or really intends to do.
    - holoduke 3y ago
      You should read the party objectives. State media is often a bit biased and even in the west you can fell victim to propoganda.
      - jacquesm 3y ago
        You're hilarious. Geert Wilders is a populist, not a politician. The party objectives are Geert Wilders' dog whistles and promises to the gullible, it isn't a serious political party even though it has attracted the largest voting bloc simply because there is no governance structure in place, the party is Geert Wilders, the rest is just window dressing. The idea that 'even in the west[sic] you can fell[sic] victim to propoganda[sic]' is true but it has nothing to do with my view of Wilders, the PVV or the general Dutch political situation. And as for state media, guess what GW wants to get rid of?
        holoduke 3y ago
        [flagged]
        jacquesm 3y ago
        > Big problems with your attitude. Cannot even stay calm. I am immediately addressed as a criminal. Its hilarious. Wrong comment thread?
  - midasz 3y ago
    He's a populist, a liar. PVV has ties and is influenced by the kremlin. Follow the money did a very good investigation. https://www.ftm.nl/artikelen/de-banden-tussen-pvv-en-rusland-zijn-sterker-dan-gedacht https://www.ftm.nl/artikelen/de-banden-tussen-pvv-en-rusland...
  - wkat4242 3y ago
    He talks left but votes right. That's what populists do. They say what people want to hear and then suit themselves.

ivan_gammel 3y ago

So how is this all relevant to what I said?

saiya-jin 3y ago

If you want to bash german politicians for current situation, 100% guilt falls on Angela Merkel. Making 1) Germany ultra weak militarily, you really can't let intellectuals drive whole nations since they have 0 clue about realpolitik, warfare and all those ugly aspects of it, and currently bundeswehr is a pathetic underfunded joke with rotting helmets that even current russian army would roll over without breaking a sweat. 2) a massive push for critical fuel dependency on russia 3) never standing up to that murderer in any way, even as he was killing and invading Georgia and Ukraine He played her and similar to her very efficiently. Of course its nothing compared to masterclass he pulled/will yet pull on Trump. As somebody coming from cca eastern Europe, being enslaved by russian troops after their bloody invasion, western Europe is... to keep things ultra polite - ultra pussies. You simply don't grok how depraved and hardened to cruelty russian mind is, things like fair game are an insult. Also their incredible durability to withstand absolutely horrible treatment, just buckle up and continue. Western sanctions my ass, just make sure any good chips don't work for them somehow because they don't care for the rest. This is the case when you are dealing with mobsters who kill and know only rule of stronger, and you come with your polite smile and handshakes and expect things like keeping their word or contracts. I don't even have such a problem with EU dumb naivety in the past, but what is shocking that they didn't wake up right after invasion and starting putting 10% of GDP into army, to see some effects in 5 years just in time when real stuff starts happening. Every single post-soviet country keeps issuing very strong warnings due to previous horrible expereiences with russian terror, but these are completely ignored on EU level. This is a major long term weakness that will not get unpunished. Yeah, when SHTF its very easy to be ashamed to be from Europe, for quite a few generations.

jacquesm 3y ago
100% agreement, it's a complete mess. I think the big mistake is that this was all built on hope and hope is a fantastic way of getting to disappointment. But now what? That's the hard question. It looks like a whole bunch of politicians in the West are in Putin's pocket or at least useful idiots, the populace doesn't give two shits as long as they can watch TV and there is bread and meanwhile the fuse is burning. It's pretty sad that the EU now has to look to Lithuania for their moral compass because they seem to have lost their own.

philwelch 3y ago

Despite a massive investigation there have never been any proven links between Trump and Russia. What’s more, Trump maintained sanctions against Russia and provided military aid to Ukraine. I can’t speak as much to the situation in Europe aside from the obvious conflicts of interest for former chancellor Gerhard Schroeder. Aside from him, I don’t know where to attribute Germany’s fecklessness: it could just as easily be the same weak-kneed pacifism that led Germany to disarm themselves. (Also, I’d point out that, contra your narrative, both Scholtz and Schroeder are members of the center-left SPD and not any far right party.)

dragonwriter 3y ago
> Despite a massive investigation there have never been any proven links between Trump and Russia. I suppose there is some narrow definition of links for which that is true. > What’s more, Trump maintained sanctions against Russia He signalled plans to weaken them, and then Congress, by massively veto-proof majorities in both Houses (419-3 House, 98-2 Senate), passed a bill limiting his ability to lift existing sanctions while also adding new sanctions on top. > and provided military aid to Ukraine. He held up Congressionally-mandated aid to try to force a quid pro quo from the Ukrainian government for propaganda to support Trump’s personal political efforts, releasing it only after he became aware that someone had blown the whistle on it.
- philwelch 3y ago
  > He held up Congressionally-mandated aid to try to force a quid pro quo from the Ukrainian government for propaganda to support Trump’s personal political efforts That’s certainly one possible interpretation of events.