5 ms·

Whenever I use a new application I look up the frequently used menu options and the corresponding keyboard shortcuts, if any. It’s a lot faster than using the m

by AnonC 3y ago

Whenever I use a new application I look up the frequently used menu options and the corresponding keyboard shortcuts, if any. It’s a lot faster than using the mouse for most actions. Nowadays most applications are developed with the mouse as the primary or sole interface (look at some Electron based or similar apps), treating the keyboard as just an input mechanism for characters and numbers, and not supporting it as a navigation or control mechanism. I don’t see many recent developers trying to learn and use keyboard shortcuts either. They suffer through slow and imprecise mouse navigation and clicks. Keyboard interfaces are faster for those who use it, but the OS and applications have to provide first class support. While I like macOS way more than Windows, don’t ever try giving up on the mouse or trackpad on a Mac. It’ll be mostly unusable and will waste a lot of your time in trying to get things done with just a keyboard. In Apple’s own apps, you just cannot do what you want to with the keyboard alone (Reminders has been a great example for many years — trying to navigate using tab or arrow keys would show how utterly broken it is).

ilrwbwrkhv 3y ago
And that is why I stick to windows and excel. You can use the keyboard far more powerfully.
treetalker 3y ago
Many MacOS users don’t know that, in almost all applications, 'Command + ?' opens the Help menu and immediately focuses a search field that allows the user to search and activate any menu command. An additional non-native but amazing (and free!) application is Shortcat (https://shortcat.app/ https://shortcat.app/). Among other amazing abilities, Shortcat lets the user access parts of the current application’s GUI that may not be accessible through the Menu Bar or other keyboard shortcuts. Highly recommended!
stevage 3y ago
I recently used windows for 2 years, and had been looking forward to good keyboard support. But modern windows is terrible at that. Many apps don't even allow you to press Alt to get to the menu. I think these days macOS is actually better for keyboard. It has pretty good support for setting up custom keyboard shortcuts.
- lwkl 3y ago
  As someone who did the opposite switch I was surprised how easy it is to make your own shortcuts on macOS. I also thought the built-in help on macOs pretty amazing. With Microsoft (except in Office) you basically have to Google and hope that there aren’t only links to their useless support forum. They should just replace it with a page that explains how to run sfc.exe /scannow.
WWLink 3y ago
I don't know what you're talking about. Historically, mac programs were designed with way more, and way better hotkeys than Windows apps. It's just that people got used to alt and arrow keys to dig around menus. Macs have a whole proper 3rd modifier key. Up until Windows 10, the "Windows Key" was a damn joke that wasted a spot lol. Plus I can do things like ctrl+a/ctrl+e pretty much anywhere to go beginning of line/end of line (except microsoft apps). I can use ctrl+c in the terminal like it was meant to be, since copy is mapped to cmd+c. I could go on probably, but seriously, that was one of my favorite things jumping from Windows 2000 to Mac OS X lol. I honestly couldn't stand using Windows for any serious kinda work until 10 added WSL and improved git support. Then again, I learned how to program on bsd machines and spent most of my teenage times using linux and OS X. I still don't really grok writing code or using dev toolchains on Windows. It's such a foreign OS. Everything about it feels backwards and upside down. It's like every other OS is a car with a wheel, shifter and two/three pedals. And then Microsoft came along and made a car with 2 joysticks and a butt controller. Admittedly, MacOS is feeling more and more like that these days. They keep breaking shit. I tried to figure out how to accept/decline incoming phone call notifications (on a mac) and there isn't a hotkey for it. lol. I'm still pondering how I'd do that, because I have a stream deck here and I'd really like to set it up on my mom's computer lol.
- dogline 3y ago
  > And then Microsoft came along and made a car with 2 joysticks and a butt controller. Dude, yep.
- canucker2016 3y ago
  Home/End keys work in DOS/Windows to go to beginning/end of line. Hold down CTRL key as well and you should go to beginning/end of document. Hold down SHIFT key and you'll select from the current cursor location to the cursor destination. Windows has Shift, CTRL, ALT keys. That's three modifier keys. The Windows key has typically never been used for an application-level shortcut key. I only know of OS-wide uses of the Windows key.
  - tpmoney 3y ago
tpmoney 3y ago
>don’t ever try giving up on the mouse or trackpad on a Mac. It’ll be mostly unusable and will waste a lot of your time in trying to get things done with just a keyboard. In Apple’s own apps, you just cannot do what you want to with the keyboard alone (Reminders has been a great example for many years — trying to navigate using tab or arrow keys would show how utterly broken it is). While it might not be fully enabled out of the box, if the default key controls any given app has aren't enough for you, there's always Settings -> Accessibility -> Full Keyboard Access which should allow you to interact with any UI element in any native app, and seems to work for VSCode as well, so I imagine will work with most electron ones too. (In a stupid UI move though, the full list of commands and the ability to remap them is behind the "info" icon for the control toggle...). You can also in the keyboard settings define shortcut that can be applied to all applications, or just select applications and remap all the modifier keys. You can also in the Pointer Control section enable mouse keys if you really need a mouse pointer for some interaction. You can even control the mouse with your head and facial expressions if you want, which is something of an experience, though getting way outside the realm of keyboard control.
wpm 3y ago
That’s because Reminders on the Mac isn’t a native app, it’s some half assed port from the iPad. Maps. Home. Stocks. Many of the newer apps are dumpster fires that eschew many of the things that made the Mac great. No keyboard nav. No scripting dictionaries. Settings stored on the web or in some keyed archiver file instead of a straight defaults plist. It’s dire.

by AnonC 3y ago

ilrwbwrkhv 3y ago

And that is why I stick to windows and excel. You can use the keyboard far more powerfully.

treetalker 3y ago

Many MacOS users don’t know that, in almost all applications, 'Command + ?' opens the Help menu and immediately focuses a search field that allows the user to search and activate any menu command. An additional non-native but amazing (and free!) application is Shortcat (https://shortcat.app/ https://shortcat.app/). Among other amazing abilities, Shortcat lets the user access parts of the current application’s GUI that may not be accessible through the Menu Bar or other keyboard shortcuts. Highly recommended!

stevage 3y ago

I recently used windows for 2 years, and had been looking forward to good keyboard support. But modern windows is terrible at that. Many apps don't even allow you to press Alt to get to the menu. I think these days macOS is actually better for keyboard. It has pretty good support for setting up custom keyboard shortcuts.

lwkl 3y ago
As someone who did the opposite switch I was surprised how easy it is to make your own shortcuts on macOS. I also thought the built-in help on macOs pretty amazing. With Microsoft (except in Office) you basically have to Google and hope that there aren’t only links to their useless support forum. They should just replace it with a page that explains how to run sfc.exe /scannow.

WWLink 3y ago

I don't know what you're talking about. Historically, mac programs were designed with way more, and way better hotkeys than Windows apps. It's just that people got used to alt and arrow keys to dig around menus. Macs have a whole proper 3rd modifier key. Up until Windows 10, the "Windows Key" was a damn joke that wasted a spot lol. Plus I can do things like ctrl+a/ctrl+e pretty much anywhere to go beginning of line/end of line (except microsoft apps). I can use ctrl+c in the terminal like it was meant to be, since copy is mapped to cmd+c. I could go on probably, but seriously, that was one of my favorite things jumping from Windows 2000 to Mac OS X lol. I honestly couldn't stand using Windows for any serious kinda work until 10 added WSL and improved git support. Then again, I learned how to program on bsd machines and spent most of my teenage times using linux and OS X. I still don't really grok writing code or using dev toolchains on Windows. It's such a foreign OS. Everything about it feels backwards and upside down. It's like every other OS is a car with a wheel, shifter and two/three pedals. And then Microsoft came along and made a car with 2 joysticks and a butt controller. Admittedly, MacOS is feeling more and more like that these days. They keep breaking shit. I tried to figure out how to accept/decline incoming phone call notifications (on a mac) and there isn't a hotkey for it. lol. I'm still pondering how I'd do that, because I have a stream deck here and I'd really like to set it up on my mom's computer lol.

dogline 3y ago
> And then Microsoft came along and made a car with 2 joysticks and a butt controller. Dude, yep.
canucker2016 3y ago
Home/End keys work in DOS/Windows to go to beginning/end of line. Hold down CTRL key as well and you should go to beginning/end of document. Hold down SHIFT key and you'll select from the current cursor location to the cursor destination. Windows has Shift, CTRL, ALT keys. That's three modifier keys. The Windows key has typically never been used for an application-level shortcut key. I only know of OS-wide uses of the Windows key.
- tpmoney 3y ago

tpmoney 3y ago

>don’t ever try giving up on the mouse or trackpad on a Mac. It’ll be mostly unusable and will waste a lot of your time in trying to get things done with just a keyboard. In Apple’s own apps, you just cannot do what you want to with the keyboard alone (Reminders has been a great example for many years — trying to navigate using tab or arrow keys would show how utterly broken it is). While it might not be fully enabled out of the box, if the default key controls any given app has aren't enough for you, there's always Settings -> Accessibility -> Full Keyboard Access which should allow you to interact with any UI element in any native app, and seems to work for VSCode as well, so I imagine will work with most electron ones too. (In a stupid UI move though, the full list of commands and the ability to remap them is behind the "info" icon for the control toggle...). You can also in the keyboard settings define shortcut that can be applied to all applications, or just select applications and remap all the modifier keys. You can also in the Pointer Control section enable mouse keys if you really need a mouse pointer for some interaction. You can even control the mouse with your head and facial expressions if you want, which is something of an experience, though getting way outside the realm of keyboard control.

wpm 3y ago

That’s because Reminders on the Mac isn’t a native app, it’s some half assed port from the iPad. Maps. Home. Stocks. Many of the newer apps are dumpster fires that eschew many of the things that made the Mac great. No keyboard nav. No scripting dictionaries. Settings stored on the web or in some keyed archiver file instead of a straight defaults plist. It’s dire.