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I’m firmly of the opinion that the best outcome for the radical left would be a second Trump presidency as it would likely aid in recruitment and disillusionmen

by moate 3y ago

I’m firmly of the opinion that the best outcome for the radical left would be a second Trump presidency as it would likely aid in recruitment and disillusionment with the current paradigm. Let your enemy show how truly debased and unhinged they can be so that everyone is forced to pick a side. People wonder why political discourse has shifted away from “the middle” and it’s because people are realizing they were lulled into relative political passivity during the clinton-obama eras. The number of older Americans who were beneficiaries of the cold-war era American Prosperity are giving way to a younger generation that feels everything was withheld from them (imo rightfully so) by those in power. So yea, let Elon and Bezos blow up the NLRB, I’m sure it will help shares in the short term and drive labor militancy in the long term. Win win!

wredue 3y ago
You are strongly underestimating the stupidity of these people. There is a reason for the saying “a conservative would let their leaders shit in their mouth as long as they thought a liberal might have to smell it”. These people are highly conditioned to believe that them losing is actually a win so long as someone else is also losing and they STILL vote for it. Thinking that losing even harder is going to sway these people is off base. They enjoy losing. They don’t care if they lost even harder. Even when they recognize that they lost, which is a hugely rare occurrence (they’re not hurting the right people, for example), they just blame the left anyway. Right wing politicians are on record stating “well why didn’t you stop us!? This is your fault!” When they shit blows up in everyone’s face. We really need to stop projecting our morality on to these people. They do not care, and when they do care, it’s your fault, not theirs.
timeon 3y ago
Accelerationism was always popular on the 'left' but it never worked out.
- pierat 3y ago
  Yep. It can ALWAYS get worse.
duped 3y ago
They tried to overturn the last election, and only by the grace of people that stood up when it mattered did that fail. If they seize power again, they will not give it up peacefully. They've already purged all dissenters from within their own ranks, and if given the opportunity to fill out the government with their own ranks they will take it. We shouldn't be rooting for political violence, which is what you're talking about.
- pierat 3y ago
  The republicans have had this view for as long as I can remember. They have wanted to demolish the welfare state, and to turn this place into the Corporate States of America. And of course, they've added on extremist Christians and white nationalists to their ranks. And now, the R's pulled the curtain on their Lee Atwater-esque double-speak and now just say what they want. Sure, the big bugaboo right now is Trump, but he's just the current symptom. Listen to any of the current to republicans - it's either trumpean say-it-like-you-mean-it, or coded language that means the same thing. This country is already eating itself from the inside out, primarily because those types are already in lifelong positions, and otherwise controlling the bureaucracy. I'm expecting a civil war out of this. Except it won't be "North vs South", but "rural+suburb vs urban". And urban is the BIG coastal cities. We're still deciding on whether to plan for civil war, or to GTFO out of here. Either way, it'll probably happen within 10y, or less if Trump is elected.
sanderjd 3y ago
This is what the phrase "cut off your nose to spite your face" was created to describe. How did this work out the first time around? Did it bolster the left's recruitment efforts so much that they became the kingmakers poised to win big majorities and revolutionize society top to bottom at the end of his term? No, it did not. Did it instead directly result in the composition of the Supreme Court that may actually agree with Amazon's argument in this case? Yes, it did. The second time around would be just the same. You'd find yourself surprised by the apparent complacency of most people in not taking up your cause, while seeing things you care about get worse in tangible ways.
- FireBeyond 3y ago
  > The second time around would be just the same. You'd find yourself surprised by the apparent complacency of most people in not taking up your cause, while seeing things you care about get worse in tangible ways. Would be even worse. Even for Trump's audacity, he still had to at least vaguely attempt to be re-electable for a second term. If he's re-elected now, no such "restraint" on his excess (and I shudder to think what he will attempt to do as the end of the second term approaches in the realm of whether he actually wants it to end - this is the man who openly admires dictators and says he aspires to be one).

by moate 3y ago

wredue 3y ago

You are strongly underestimating the stupidity of these people. There is a reason for the saying “a conservative would let their leaders shit in their mouth as long as they thought a liberal might have to smell it”. These people are highly conditioned to believe that them losing is actually a win so long as someone else is also losing and they STILL vote for it. Thinking that losing even harder is going to sway these people is off base. They enjoy losing. They don’t care if they lost even harder. Even when they recognize that they lost, which is a hugely rare occurrence (they’re not hurting the right people, for example), they just blame the left anyway. Right wing politicians are on record stating “well why didn’t you stop us!? This is your fault!” When they shit blows up in everyone’s face. We really need to stop projecting our morality on to these people. They do not care, and when they do care, it’s your fault, not theirs.

timeon 3y ago

Accelerationism was always popular on the 'left' but it never worked out.

pierat 3y ago
Yep. It can ALWAYS get worse.

duped 3y ago

They tried to overturn the last election, and only by the grace of people that stood up when it mattered did that fail. If they seize power again, they will not give it up peacefully. They've already purged all dissenters from within their own ranks, and if given the opportunity to fill out the government with their own ranks they will take it. We shouldn't be rooting for political violence, which is what you're talking about.

pierat 3y ago
The republicans have had this view for as long as I can remember. They have wanted to demolish the welfare state, and to turn this place into the Corporate States of America. And of course, they've added on extremist Christians and white nationalists to their ranks. And now, the R's pulled the curtain on their Lee Atwater-esque double-speak and now just say what they want. Sure, the big bugaboo right now is Trump, but he's just the current symptom. Listen to any of the current to republicans - it's either trumpean say-it-like-you-mean-it, or coded language that means the same thing. This country is already eating itself from the inside out, primarily because those types are already in lifelong positions, and otherwise controlling the bureaucracy. I'm expecting a civil war out of this. Except it won't be "North vs South", but "rural+suburb vs urban". And urban is the BIG coastal cities. We're still deciding on whether to plan for civil war, or to GTFO out of here. Either way, it'll probably happen within 10y, or less if Trump is elected.

sanderjd 3y ago

This is what the phrase "cut off your nose to spite your face" was created to describe. How did this work out the first time around? Did it bolster the left's recruitment efforts so much that they became the kingmakers poised to win big majorities and revolutionize society top to bottom at the end of his term? No, it did not. Did it instead directly result in the composition of the Supreme Court that may actually agree with Amazon's argument in this case? Yes, it did. The second time around would be just the same. You'd find yourself surprised by the apparent complacency of most people in not taking up your cause, while seeing things you care about get worse in tangible ways.

FireBeyond 3y ago
> The second time around would be just the same. You'd find yourself surprised by the apparent complacency of most people in not taking up your cause, while seeing things you care about get worse in tangible ways. Would be even worse. Even for Trump's audacity, he still had to at least vaguely attempt to be re-electable for a second term. If he's re-elected now, no such "restraint" on his excess (and I shudder to think what he will attempt to do as the end of the second term approaches in the realm of whether he actually wants it to end - this is the man who openly admires dictators and says he aspires to be one).