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I'm not sure how anyone begins to trust our own military or elected Establishment leaders who start and fund endless frivolous wars for decades, for greed, leav

I'm not sure how anyone begins to trust our own military or elected Establishment leaders who start and fund endless frivolous wars for decades, for greed, leaving the Middle East absolutely laid to waste. Bush, Obama / Hillary, and Biden are no different than Putin, if not far worse. They deserve no more trust from Americans than a serial killer who took out members of your family for fun. They are reckless abusers, for greed and continued power.

inglor_cz 3y ago
If I were a Middle Easterner, I would agree. Or South American, for that purpose. (With one huge caveat, both the Middle Easterners and the South Americans are perfectly capable of starting various shit themselves. Don't deprive them of agency by painting them as blind and obedient puppets of Washington. Especially the Middle East is a very ancient civilization with a tradition of backstabbing and betrayal going deep into the Antiquity. They don't have to learn that from some Westerners.) But in the context of European security, the main problem of the last decades was either the USSR or Russia, not the US. It was Soviet tanks that rolled through Czechoslovak cities in 1968 to crush our attempt at political independence, not American ones. Context matters, and for former Soviet Bloc nations, Americans are an ally against potential reestablishment of Russian rule.
- docmars 3y ago
  But today's Russia is explicitly against the Bolsheviks and any form of the USSR altogether. Russia has moved well beyond that, so it isn't a matter of reestablishing former Russian rule under the same horrible terms as before. They are prospering now, are they not? In 2023, a trusted, world-renowned expert — Bill Gates — stated that Ukraine is one of the single most corrupt nations in the world, and that he feels very sorry for the people there. [1] That says a lot, doesn't it? Zelenskyy shuts down churches, imprisons political protestors and American journalists, and launders money back to the U.S. war machine after we "fund" them every month or less — to the order of $113 million per day now. How could anyone not see clearly what's happening there? It seems that people are so blinded by their hatred for Russia, that what the people are suffering in Ukraine on Ukraine's own accord isn't enough of a problem, despite how gaping it is. 1. https://x.com/RG_SargeXB/status/1758499201468768291?s=20 https://x.com/RG_SargeXB/status/1758499201468768291?s=20
  - inglor_cz 3y ago
    Russia may be explicitly against Bolsheviks (though recycling the Soviet anthem!), and Putin's Russia is indeed more akin to the former tsarist Empire than to USSR, but the tsarist Empire was fairly evil, too. Just ask the Poles or the Jews. Russian empire didn't grow to its huge size by trade and friendship, it was conquest. Ukraine is corrupt. So what? Ukrainian corruption is a threat to no one. Not a single nation from Finland to Bulgaria considers itself vulnerable to Ukrainian military aggression, because they aren't an imperial nation and don't seek to dominate others. They were perfectly fine within their 1991 borders and never attempted to annex any extra territory by any means. It is Russia's problem, in the words of great Václav Havel, that it does not know exactly where it ends. All the hatred for Russia stems from their former heavy-handed rule of other nations. If they sincerely tried to make amends, it would slowly go away. They are now trying to rebuild their former imperial system. OF COURSE that nations which escaped their tyranny once are going to hate them. It is freaking simple: we, as in Estonians, Latvians, Poles, Czechs, Rumanians, Ukrainians, Georgians etc. DON'T WANT TO BE THREATENED OR ATTACKED BY RUSSIA. That's it. We have had enough experience with Russian rule. It is primitive and brutal at the same time. Never again.
    - docmars 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - inglor_cz 3y ago
        "we would already be seeing Poland and other neighboring territories taken over by Russia with great ease" The same ease as now in Avdiivka? It took five months of constant bloodshed for Russians to gain the upper hand. "Putin wants to reclaim only a small fraction of Ukraine where the people in those regions have openly stated wanting that very thing to happen, due to Ukraine's corruption and oppressive policies." I don't even know what to reply to this. Hitler also ran fake referenda. BTW That small fraction of Ukraine is something like a sixth of its total territory, plus multiple important cities and most of the coastline. I never really understood why people believed Hitler when he declared in 1938 that Czechoslovak Sudetenland was his last territorial demand, but hey, here we go again. "Kiev is practically spotless when you compare it to Gaza" And? There was never ground fighting in Kiev proper, given that the Russians didn't manage to enter the city, and both Ukraine and Russia have enough of AA to keep each other's air assets at bay. Look at Bakhmut or Avdiivka, places of actual fighting and former homes of tens of thousands of people. They actually do look a lot worse than Gaza. How did you miss those cities when looking for context and perspective?
- za3faran 3y ago
  > specially the Middle East is a very ancient civilization with a tradition of backstabbing and betrayal going deep into the Antiquity. As a "Middle Easterner" (a colonialist term by the way), I didn't realize that the "Middle East" was one conglomerate culture. Thank you for teaching me about my history /s
  - inglor_cz 3y ago
    Civilization is an umbrella term that usually covers multiple cultures. We also speak of Western civilization, even though it doesn't equal to one conglomerate culture either. As for 'colonialist' term ... sigh, do I care how people call Europe on Arabic or Turkish forums? Every cultural region has some lingo that reflects its history. 'Europe' itself is a Phoenician word that means "country of sunset". From their perspective, it was. Hereby I am forgiving old Phoenician colonialists (and they indeed colonized much of the Mediterranean) for naming some continent according to their local perspective. That is what people tend to do.
    - za3faran 3y ago
      So your statement is a tautology. You'll find good and bad people in any group; there's nothing inherent in "middle eastern civilization" that promotes backstabbing, and in fact you'll find the opposite.
      - inglor_cz 3y ago
        Not in the context of the comment I was reacting upon, which seems to be based in the Susan Sontag view of the West.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

inglor_cz 3y ago

If I were a Middle Easterner, I would agree. Or South American, for that purpose. (With one huge caveat, both the Middle Easterners and the South Americans are perfectly capable of starting various shit themselves. Don't deprive them of agency by painting them as blind and obedient puppets of Washington. Especially the Middle East is a very ancient civilization with a tradition of backstabbing and betrayal going deep into the Antiquity. They don't have to learn that from some Westerners.) But in the context of European security, the main problem of the last decades was either the USSR or Russia, not the US. It was Soviet tanks that rolled through Czechoslovak cities in 1968 to crush our attempt at political independence, not American ones. Context matters, and for former Soviet Bloc nations, Americans are an ally against potential reestablishment of Russian rule.

docmars 3y ago
But today's Russia is explicitly against the Bolsheviks and any form of the USSR altogether. Russia has moved well beyond that, so it isn't a matter of reestablishing former Russian rule under the same horrible terms as before. They are prospering now, are they not? In 2023, a trusted, world-renowned expert — Bill Gates — stated that Ukraine is one of the single most corrupt nations in the world, and that he feels very sorry for the people there. [1] That says a lot, doesn't it? Zelenskyy shuts down churches, imprisons political protestors and American journalists, and launders money back to the U.S. war machine after we "fund" them every month or less — to the order of $113 million per day now. How could anyone not see clearly what's happening there? It seems that people are so blinded by their hatred for Russia, that what the people are suffering in Ukraine on Ukraine's own accord isn't enough of a problem, despite how gaping it is. 1. https://x.com/RG_SargeXB/status/1758499201468768291?s=20 https://x.com/RG_SargeXB/status/1758499201468768291?s=20
- inglor_cz 3y ago
  Russia may be explicitly against Bolsheviks (though recycling the Soviet anthem!), and Putin's Russia is indeed more akin to the former tsarist Empire than to USSR, but the tsarist Empire was fairly evil, too. Just ask the Poles or the Jews. Russian empire didn't grow to its huge size by trade and friendship, it was conquest. Ukraine is corrupt. So what? Ukrainian corruption is a threat to no one. Not a single nation from Finland to Bulgaria considers itself vulnerable to Ukrainian military aggression, because they aren't an imperial nation and don't seek to dominate others. They were perfectly fine within their 1991 borders and never attempted to annex any extra territory by any means. It is Russia's problem, in the words of great Václav Havel, that it does not know exactly where it ends. All the hatred for Russia stems from their former heavy-handed rule of other nations. If they sincerely tried to make amends, it would slowly go away. They are now trying to rebuild their former imperial system. OF COURSE that nations which escaped their tyranny once are going to hate them. It is freaking simple: we, as in Estonians, Latvians, Poles, Czechs, Rumanians, Ukrainians, Georgians etc. DON'T WANT TO BE THREATENED OR ATTACKED BY RUSSIA. That's it. We have had enough experience with Russian rule. It is primitive and brutal at the same time. Never again.
  - docmars 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - inglor_cz 3y ago
      "we would already be seeing Poland and other neighboring territories taken over by Russia with great ease" The same ease as now in Avdiivka? It took five months of constant bloodshed for Russians to gain the upper hand. "Putin wants to reclaim only a small fraction of Ukraine where the people in those regions have openly stated wanting that very thing to happen, due to Ukraine's corruption and oppressive policies." I don't even know what to reply to this. Hitler also ran fake referenda. BTW That small fraction of Ukraine is something like a sixth of its total territory, plus multiple important cities and most of the coastline. I never really understood why people believed Hitler when he declared in 1938 that Czechoslovak Sudetenland was his last territorial demand, but hey, here we go again. "Kiev is practically spotless when you compare it to Gaza" And? There was never ground fighting in Kiev proper, given that the Russians didn't manage to enter the city, and both Ukraine and Russia have enough of AA to keep each other's air assets at bay. Look at Bakhmut or Avdiivka, places of actual fighting and former homes of tens of thousands of people. They actually do look a lot worse than Gaza. How did you miss those cities when looking for context and perspective?
za3faran 3y ago
> specially the Middle East is a very ancient civilization with a tradition of backstabbing and betrayal going deep into the Antiquity. As a "Middle Easterner" (a colonialist term by the way), I didn't realize that the "Middle East" was one conglomerate culture. Thank you for teaching me about my history /s
- inglor_cz 3y ago
  Civilization is an umbrella term that usually covers multiple cultures. We also speak of Western civilization, even though it doesn't equal to one conglomerate culture either. As for 'colonialist' term ... sigh, do I care how people call Europe on Arabic or Turkish forums? Every cultural region has some lingo that reflects its history. 'Europe' itself is a Phoenician word that means "country of sunset". From their perspective, it was. Hereby I am forgiving old Phoenician colonialists (and they indeed colonized much of the Mediterranean) for naming some continent according to their local perspective. That is what people tend to do.
  - za3faran 3y ago
    So your statement is a tautology. You'll find good and bad people in any group; there's nothing inherent in "middle eastern civilization" that promotes backstabbing, and in fact you'll find the opposite.
    - inglor_cz 3y ago
      Not in the context of the comment I was reacting upon, which seems to be based in the Susan Sontag view of the West.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]