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>Speaking of facts, how about you start providing your source for this hyperbole claim It is you sending out a volley non falsifiable claims as an argument tha

>Speaking of facts, how about you start providing your source for this hyperbole claim It is you sending out a volley non falsifiable claims as an argument that justifies the invasion. You might as well tell me that PG is behind everything, I can't disprove that. >Ironic claim given the NATO expansion What aboutism. >This is the illusion we're being sold Yeah alright. Please don't bring groupthink and cancel culture into the discussion, it's really not pertinent, you are 1 minute away from going "the west has fallen". And I agree with you that there are many things to improve, to say the least. Still, even if the Western free speech, free market, etc. is all an illusion, Ukrainians have the right to pick that rather than the russkiy mir. >We need to hold our leaders and ourselves to a higher standard than our enemies I agree. Raping, torturing, pillaging, genociding, should be unthinkable. Doing that is giving up on being human, imo. >and we're fine with entire families being wiped out with the push of a button Who's we? >not agitate against the "orcs" like they're animals Who's agitating? It seems to me that Western media has been even too kind to russians. The most terrible deeds that by sheer luck emerge and become public are quickly forgotten. >anyone paying attention I guess the only one paying attention is you, not sure what you are paying attention to tho, since you seem unable to state something even just remotely close to the fact that russians are doing something wrong. I wish you and your family will never have to live under the threat of the russkiy mir, but, usually, textbook useful idiots and demoralized people (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yErKTVdETpw&ab_channel=NicholasMarshall https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yErKTVdETpw&ab_channel=Nicho...) tend to be far away from any danger in this day and age, with somebody else paying the price.

worksonmine 3y ago
> It is you sending out a volley non falsifiable claims as an argument that justifies the invasion. You might as well tell me that PG is behind everything, What is non falsifiable? You can even find it on Wikipedia, that's how mainstream it all is. Who is PG? > What aboutism. Irrelevant, the discussion is about vilifying and dehumanizing the opposition. That's how we get places like Guantanamo and the pictures of Iraqi prisoners US soldiers took for shits and giggles. So what we do as a comparison is on topic. But if whataboutism is your best response so be it. > Ukrainians have the right to pick that rather than the russkiy mir. Still stuck here. What did they choose in the elections? Democracy picked Russia, coup gave them West. Read it twice so we don't need to go over it again. Wasted bytes. > I agree. Raping, torturing, pillaging, genociding, should be unthinkable. Doing that is giving up on being human, imo. And we don't? The US as we speak has warships protecting Israel in their genocide ("no water, no food, no electricity, nothing" - Israeli Defense Minister). Israel can compete in sports and Eurovision. Wars are a fucking popularity contest to us and it's absolutely disgusting. You'll probably claim the Azov battalion were fine human beings towards ethnic Russians between 2014-2022? > Who's we? Who's agitating? It seems to me that Western media has been even too kind to russians. The elite in the west. Western media. Latest example is Tuckers interview, even before it aired they started questioning why Putin should get the chance to speak. Why not? What are we so afraid of? Trump wins, and it must be Russia and Assange colluding. No no the americans can't possibly want this. Everytime this embarrassing blaming Russia for everything. Textbook propaganda. > I guess the only one paying attention is you, not sure what you are paying attention to tho, since you seem unable to state something even just remotely close to the fact that russians are doing something wrong. This is where you're deliberately misunderstanding me, even if I've mentioned in every comment that I don't pick sides. I just paint the picture that we're not as good as we try to claim and that we should get off our high horses. But I do see how we got in this situation, and it won't be the last one. For every atrocity you mention I can find comparisons from the West. I'm a pacifist and want peace and cooperation, not constant conflict. Plenty of people are paying attention, but the majority aren't they just change their profile picture to the latest conflict du jour and repeat their politicians mantras. I think peace in the world is possible, but those with the power to achieve it don't want that. An equal world doesn't benefit them. And it's not their kids dying in Ukraine. I would have much more respect for NATO if we actually went boots on the ground and helped sort out the mess we were part of creating. The poor Ukrainians were fooled, they took a big risk and when shit hit the fan they're on their own because we want to keep the illusion that we're not involved.
- dindobre 3y ago
  Vilifying a horde of barbarians that film themselves castrating prisoners or raping toddlers is indeed something I intend to do and dehumanize. The fact that you think what russians are doing and their past history and depravations towards neighboring countries is in any way comparable to NATO and the US is completely off the bonkers. After bringing up points like Euromaidan being a coup, Saddam and the petrodollar, you are now bringing in shit like Trump, "elites in the west", and finally the Azov battalion and the Ukrainians doing violence on ethnic Russians, you are bringing out the points of "we must invade because the Ukrainians are bombarding Donetsk children and they are nazis" of russian propaganda. An attentive reader would have noticed that you said "ethnic russians", de facto stating that there is a chunk of Ukraine that is actually russia and must be saved. I'll let you in on something: the fact that I feel so strongly about these fucking savages that invaded Ukraine and useful idiots gushing down russian propaganda is because I am a Westerner that lives in Ukraine and I've been living here since before the war. Part of the acquired family I have from my partner is from Donetsk and the fact that you bring up Azov and this ethnic russian thing is the cherry on top, the perfect piece of bullshit that me, actually living in Ukraine, is perfectly equipped to call you on about. >For every atrocity you mention I can find comparisons from the West No, you cannot. Russia, from its imperial times, has brought upon the world the worst depraved and terrible crimes, nazi concentration camps are a walk in the park compared to the joys of the russian empire and later the soviet union. And still, we're talking about 2024, these things are being done right now. >I'm a pacifist and want peace and cooperation, not constant conflict. You aren't, you are a useful idiot who paves the way for the demoralization of your nation and its later destruction What disgusts me the most is that you seem to be unable to cede on the point that what russia did is wrong. You even mention that brutalities are okay because apparently, somebody else did them in the past. Russia invading is okay because trump/saddam/elites in the west/euromaidan/crimean fleet/azov battalion/whatever other shit you gobbled up on the internet. But hey, you are a pacifist.
  - worksonmine 3y ago
    Have you noticed how you don't argue any of my points? All you do is resort to calling me a useful idiot, building strawman arguments (like accusing me of accepting Putins claim of denazification, while I myself have mentioned it's all about Crimea, always was) or claiming I'm spreading Russian propaganda. I make a point of only sticking to what is verifiable in mainstream sources to avoid these kinds of useless accusations. You have a very condescending and unnecessary tone, but make very few points yourself. Why is that? You claim since you are in Ukraine (I call bullshit but whatever) you have better sources than me, I doubt it. Any source that would put Kiev in a bad light is regarded as traitors and jailed. Like that blogger was recently for example. So honest reporting from within Ukraine forget about it. Even western media has stopped trying to paint the beautiful picture Zelensky is. How many more Ukrainians are you willing to let die for NATOs cause? Are you fighting? To the last Ukrainian like Zelensky wants? For who? Why? Your comment here doesn't make me unsee the civilians being killed between 2014-2022. This is not demoralization, you should've realized the west are vile scum from the get go and should've never trusted us. We use our puppets as long as they're useful, then we stage a coup or oust them ourselves. I've said I've wanted NATO to enter openly even after Euromaidan, before 2022. Because even then it was obvious what this was all about. > What disgusts me the most is that you seem to be unable to cede on the point that what russia did is wrong. You even mention that brutalities are okay because apparently, somebody else did them in the past. Russia invading is okay because trump/saddam/elites in the west/euromaidan/crimean fleet/azov battalion/whatever other shit you gobbled up on the internet. But hey, you are a pacifist. Why are you lying about my claims? Never said anything even close to that. Is there a problem with your reading comprehension? A language barrier? How can I be clearer than I've been in the last 15 comments? It's getting exhausting to repeat myself. This could've been stopped anytime in the last 20-30 years. Ukraine wasn't even a country back when this all started. You're reacting now that Russia finally bites back, but all the pushing for half a century you ignore. That doesn't mean it's right, but it's expected and logical. We played and keep playing a part. How come only our side is allowed to be afraid, to expand and play power games? A leads to B leads to C. Simple logic. Is there some kind of natural law that says we always have to be at war with the east? How about we take the first step and try something else for once?

worksonmine 3y ago

> It is you sending out a volley non falsifiable claims as an argument that justifies the invasion. You might as well tell me that PG is behind everything, What is non falsifiable? You can even find it on Wikipedia, that's how mainstream it all is. Who is PG? > What aboutism. Irrelevant, the discussion is about vilifying and dehumanizing the opposition. That's how we get places like Guantanamo and the pictures of Iraqi prisoners US soldiers took for shits and giggles. So what we do as a comparison is on topic. But if whataboutism is your best response so be it. > Ukrainians have the right to pick that rather than the russkiy mir. Still stuck here. What did they choose in the elections? Democracy picked Russia, coup gave them West. Read it twice so we don't need to go over it again. Wasted bytes. > I agree. Raping, torturing, pillaging, genociding, should be unthinkable. Doing that is giving up on being human, imo. And we don't? The US as we speak has warships protecting Israel in their genocide ("no water, no food, no electricity, nothing" - Israeli Defense Minister). Israel can compete in sports and Eurovision. Wars are a fucking popularity contest to us and it's absolutely disgusting. You'll probably claim the Azov battalion were fine human beings towards ethnic Russians between 2014-2022? > Who's we? Who's agitating? It seems to me that Western media has been even too kind to russians. The elite in the west. Western media. Latest example is Tuckers interview, even before it aired they started questioning why Putin should get the chance to speak. Why not? What are we so afraid of? Trump wins, and it must be Russia and Assange colluding. No no the americans can't possibly want this. Everytime this embarrassing blaming Russia for everything. Textbook propaganda. > I guess the only one paying attention is you, not sure what you are paying attention to tho, since you seem unable to state something even just remotely close to the fact that russians are doing something wrong. This is where you're deliberately misunderstanding me, even if I've mentioned in every comment that I don't pick sides. I just paint the picture that we're not as good as we try to claim and that we should get off our high horses. But I do see how we got in this situation, and it won't be the last one. For every atrocity you mention I can find comparisons from the West. I'm a pacifist and want peace and cooperation, not constant conflict. Plenty of people are paying attention, but the majority aren't they just change their profile picture to the latest conflict du jour and repeat their politicians mantras. I think peace in the world is possible, but those with the power to achieve it don't want that. An equal world doesn't benefit them. And it's not their kids dying in Ukraine. I would have much more respect for NATO if we actually went boots on the ground and helped sort out the mess we were part of creating. The poor Ukrainians were fooled, they took a big risk and when shit hit the fan they're on their own because we want to keep the illusion that we're not involved.

dindobre 3y ago
Vilifying a horde of barbarians that film themselves castrating prisoners or raping toddlers is indeed something I intend to do and dehumanize. The fact that you think what russians are doing and their past history and depravations towards neighboring countries is in any way comparable to NATO and the US is completely off the bonkers. After bringing up points like Euromaidan being a coup, Saddam and the petrodollar, you are now bringing in shit like Trump, "elites in the west", and finally the Azov battalion and the Ukrainians doing violence on ethnic Russians, you are bringing out the points of "we must invade because the Ukrainians are bombarding Donetsk children and they are nazis" of russian propaganda. An attentive reader would have noticed that you said "ethnic russians", de facto stating that there is a chunk of Ukraine that is actually russia and must be saved. I'll let you in on something: the fact that I feel so strongly about these fucking savages that invaded Ukraine and useful idiots gushing down russian propaganda is because I am a Westerner that lives in Ukraine and I've been living here since before the war. Part of the acquired family I have from my partner is from Donetsk and the fact that you bring up Azov and this ethnic russian thing is the cherry on top, the perfect piece of bullshit that me, actually living in Ukraine, is perfectly equipped to call you on about. >For every atrocity you mention I can find comparisons from the West No, you cannot. Russia, from its imperial times, has brought upon the world the worst depraved and terrible crimes, nazi concentration camps are a walk in the park compared to the joys of the russian empire and later the soviet union. And still, we're talking about 2024, these things are being done right now. >I'm a pacifist and want peace and cooperation, not constant conflict. You aren't, you are a useful idiot who paves the way for the demoralization of your nation and its later destruction What disgusts me the most is that you seem to be unable to cede on the point that what russia did is wrong. You even mention that brutalities are okay because apparently, somebody else did them in the past. Russia invading is okay because trump/saddam/elites in the west/euromaidan/crimean fleet/azov battalion/whatever other shit you gobbled up on the internet. But hey, you are a pacifist.
- worksonmine 3y ago
  Have you noticed how you don't argue any of my points? All you do is resort to calling me a useful idiot, building strawman arguments (like accusing me of accepting Putins claim of denazification, while I myself have mentioned it's all about Crimea, always was) or claiming I'm spreading Russian propaganda. I make a point of only sticking to what is verifiable in mainstream sources to avoid these kinds of useless accusations. You have a very condescending and unnecessary tone, but make very few points yourself. Why is that? You claim since you are in Ukraine (I call bullshit but whatever) you have better sources than me, I doubt it. Any source that would put Kiev in a bad light is regarded as traitors and jailed. Like that blogger was recently for example. So honest reporting from within Ukraine forget about it. Even western media has stopped trying to paint the beautiful picture Zelensky is. How many more Ukrainians are you willing to let die for NATOs cause? Are you fighting? To the last Ukrainian like Zelensky wants? For who? Why? Your comment here doesn't make me unsee the civilians being killed between 2014-2022. This is not demoralization, you should've realized the west are vile scum from the get go and should've never trusted us. We use our puppets as long as they're useful, then we stage a coup or oust them ourselves. I've said I've wanted NATO to enter openly even after Euromaidan, before 2022. Because even then it was obvious what this was all about. > What disgusts me the most is that you seem to be unable to cede on the point that what russia did is wrong. You even mention that brutalities are okay because apparently, somebody else did them in the past. Russia invading is okay because trump/saddam/elites in the west/euromaidan/crimean fleet/azov battalion/whatever other shit you gobbled up on the internet. But hey, you are a pacifist. Why are you lying about my claims? Never said anything even close to that. Is there a problem with your reading comprehension? A language barrier? How can I be clearer than I've been in the last 15 comments? It's getting exhausting to repeat myself. This could've been stopped anytime in the last 20-30 years. Ukraine wasn't even a country back when this all started. You're reacting now that Russia finally bites back, but all the pushing for half a century you ignore. That doesn't mean it's right, but it's expected and logical. We played and keep playing a part. How come only our side is allowed to be afraid, to expand and play power games? A leads to B leads to C. Simple logic. Is there some kind of natural law that says we always have to be at war with the east? How about we take the first step and try something else for once?