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Direct Link to "Lem" the Common Lisp based "Emacs" discussed in the talk. https://lem-project.github.io/ https://lem-project.github.io/ https://github.com/lem-

Direct Link to "Lem" the Common Lisp based "Emacs" discussed in the talk. https://lem-project.github.io/ https://lem-project.github.io/ https://github.com/lem-project/lem https://github.com/lem-project/lem

globular-toast 3y ago
Sadly not licensed under the GPL.
- kyykky 3y ago
  Is there a benefit in using GPL for text editors?
  - kleiba 3y ago
    Only the same benefit as for any software.
  - lupusreal 3y ago
    It prevents the editor from (legally) becoming proprietary software which deprives users of their software freedoms.
    - Jtsummers 3y ago
      I suspect that if someone is in a position where they are compelled to purchase and use the proprietary version and not the free (and available) version, they already lack most software freedoms. Probably several other, more important, freedoms as well.
  - globular-toast 3y ago
    Licences like MIT optimise individual freedom: they give each user the freedom to do anything including restricting the freedom of others. Licences like GPL optimise community freedom: they give each user the freedom to do anything except restricting the freedom of others. Think of it like local vs global optimisation.
    - GrumpySloth 3y ago
      MIT doesn’t give anyone the ability to restrict the freedom of others. When you fork a project and use a difference licence for it, the original project remains under MIT.
    - roenxi 3y ago
      Although I agree, notice that the only act the GPL compels someone to do is to hand over the source code with the program. MIT doesn't give people a freedom to restrict because that isn't a freedom. The restriction is always done by the legal system. The GPL is just an attempt to stop the legal system from interfering in the market to restrict user freedom. So both licenses are actually communicating to a 3rd party (a judge) under what circumstances they should restrict the freedom of others. GPL says to stay out of it as long as people are sharing their source code and MIT says get involved sometimes/its complicated. It isn't a practical difference, but it is philosophically important. The amount of personal freedom both licenses give is technically quite similar.
      - globular-toast 3y ago
        That's right, the GPL and other copyleft licences in fact aim to disable copyright, this restoring us back to how things should be with no copyright.
- GrumpySloth 3y ago
  I can understand wanting to restrict use of something a person created using a restrictive licence. I can’t understand being sad about someone else not restricting what they created. To me it looks like someone being sad after seeing someone else giving out free ice cream, even though the person being sad didn’t contribute to making the ice cream.
  - samatman 3y ago
    I call these personality types free software socialists, and free software communists. The free software socialists are my friends. The free software communists are not.
  - stolen_biscuit 3y ago
    Calling the GPL a restrictive license is a bit like saying you can't cut down the trees in a public park and sell the wood is restrictive.
    - GrumpySloth 3y ago
      That analogy would make sense only if cutting trees left the trees intact and didn’t annoy people in the park with noise etc. Alas, it’s nonsense.
    - tshirttime 3y ago
      For those confused by the dangling modifier, he means the combined act of cutting the trees and selling the wood is restrictive. Also, a terrible analogy since trees are an exhaustible resource within a meaningful time range.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
  - globular-toast 3y ago
    GPL is more free than MIT, not less. I would never make significant contributions to a non-GPL project.
whartung 3y ago
Is this based on Hemlock, or was it written from scratch? I really, really want a graphical emacs. By that I mean, I want an emacs with graphics, not an emacs in windows. I want to easily be able to draw stuff. I ran into this the other day, I like to dabble in emacs, and I had a list of results I wanted to make a quick chart. I ended up dumping it out in a simple CSV, and copy/pasting that into a spreadsheet, and hitting "chart". Would have been nice to go (line-chart my-list) and have a window pop up with reasonable defaults. And be able to print it to a PDF. emacs has some SVG support, but I guess its maintainer whim whether you get it or not, I wasn't able to easily get it working on my Mac. That could be a start. But something "nicer" would be, you know, "nice".
- strken 3y ago
  image-mode can render real images, so there should be a way to embed charts of some kind.
- TacticalCoder 3y ago
  Maybe this would interest you: https://sqrtminusone.xyz/posts/2021-05-01-org-python/ https://sqrtminusone.xyz/posts/2021-05-01-org-python/ (the very first screenshot is Emacs)
- mark_l_watson 3y ago
  When building it, choose “make sdl2” to get the graphical UI. I also build the text UI, but the sdl2 UI is more fun and is very responsive. I didn’t see any ability to draw graphs in the window.

globular-toast 3y ago

Sadly not licensed under the GPL.

kyykky 3y ago
Is there a benefit in using GPL for text editors?
- kleiba 3y ago
  Only the same benefit as for any software.
- lupusreal 3y ago
  It prevents the editor from (legally) becoming proprietary software which deprives users of their software freedoms.
  - Jtsummers 3y ago
    I suspect that if someone is in a position where they are compelled to purchase and use the proprietary version and not the free (and available) version, they already lack most software freedoms. Probably several other, more important, freedoms as well.
- globular-toast 3y ago
  Licences like MIT optimise individual freedom: they give each user the freedom to do anything including restricting the freedom of others. Licences like GPL optimise community freedom: they give each user the freedom to do anything except restricting the freedom of others. Think of it like local vs global optimisation.
  - GrumpySloth 3y ago
    MIT doesn’t give anyone the ability to restrict the freedom of others. When you fork a project and use a difference licence for it, the original project remains under MIT.
  - roenxi 3y ago
    Although I agree, notice that the only act the GPL compels someone to do is to hand over the source code with the program. MIT doesn't give people a freedom to restrict because that isn't a freedom. The restriction is always done by the legal system. The GPL is just an attempt to stop the legal system from interfering in the market to restrict user freedom. So both licenses are actually communicating to a 3rd party (a judge) under what circumstances they should restrict the freedom of others. GPL says to stay out of it as long as people are sharing their source code and MIT says get involved sometimes/its complicated. It isn't a practical difference, but it is philosophically important. The amount of personal freedom both licenses give is technically quite similar.
    - globular-toast 3y ago
      That's right, the GPL and other copyleft licences in fact aim to disable copyright, this restoring us back to how things should be with no copyright.
GrumpySloth 3y ago
I can understand wanting to restrict use of something a person created using a restrictive licence. I can’t understand being sad about someone else not restricting what they created. To me it looks like someone being sad after seeing someone else giving out free ice cream, even though the person being sad didn’t contribute to making the ice cream.
- samatman 3y ago
  I call these personality types free software socialists, and free software communists. The free software socialists are my friends. The free software communists are not.
- stolen_biscuit 3y ago
  Calling the GPL a restrictive license is a bit like saying you can't cut down the trees in a public park and sell the wood is restrictive.
  - GrumpySloth 3y ago
    That analogy would make sense only if cutting trees left the trees intact and didn’t annoy people in the park with noise etc. Alas, it’s nonsense.
  - tshirttime 3y ago
    For those confused by the dangling modifier, he means the combined act of cutting the trees and selling the wood is restrictive. Also, a terrible analogy since trees are an exhaustible resource within a meaningful time range.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- globular-toast 3y ago
  GPL is more free than MIT, not less. I would never make significant contributions to a non-GPL project.

whartung 3y ago

Is this based on Hemlock, or was it written from scratch? I really, really want a graphical emacs. By that I mean, I want an emacs with graphics, not an emacs in windows. I want to easily be able to draw stuff. I ran into this the other day, I like to dabble in emacs, and I had a list of results I wanted to make a quick chart. I ended up dumping it out in a simple CSV, and copy/pasting that into a spreadsheet, and hitting "chart". Would have been nice to go (line-chart my-list) and have a window pop up with reasonable defaults. And be able to print it to a PDF. emacs has some SVG support, but I guess its maintainer whim whether you get it or not, I wasn't able to easily get it working on my Mac. That could be a start. But something "nicer" would be, you know, "nice".

strken 3y ago
image-mode can render real images, so there should be a way to embed charts of some kind.
TacticalCoder 3y ago
Maybe this would interest you: https://sqrtminusone.xyz/posts/2021-05-01-org-python/ https://sqrtminusone.xyz/posts/2021-05-01-org-python/ (the very first screenshot is Emacs)
mark_l_watson 3y ago
When building it, choose “make sdl2” to get the graphical UI. I also build the text UI, but the sdl2 UI is more fun and is very responsive. I didn’t see any ability to draw graphs in the window.