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There are smart people who work for Russia, or worse - for russian gov. Without them it would not be possible. How can an individual have both the critical thi

There are smart people who work for Russia, or worse - for russian gov. Without them it would not be possible. How can an individual have both the critical thinking and still have the gut to contribute to this? I grew up in rural russia. It's much much worse than what you see on the facade. My neighbour was a police man. His 15 years boy raped a kid from local orphanage and captured it on a video. No justice followed, because his dad is a policeman. No one spoke up. Everyone just accepted it, as they always do. When he grew up he became a policeman. It's not even the most screwed up story that I witnessed. This is beyond fucked up. It's a case of mass inheritable PTSD. All males I knew in my family tree were violent drunks, all females were bitten up housewives. This place is surreal and should not exist. And my family was somewhat functional compared to some neighbours. I abandoned everything there and got out as soon as I could make any money. I wish every person capable of critical thinking just leave this dreadful place and let it descend to the middle ages.

selimthegrim 3y ago
Oh my God this sounds like New Orleans
secondary_op 3y ago
[flagged]
- emptyfile 3y ago
  [dead]
MrDresden 3y ago
> How can an individual have both the critical thinking and still have the gut to contribute to this? Personal experience has taught me that critical thinking does not nessecarily go hand in hand with the ability and/or the guts to push for change. Many who move through corporate worlds do so for personal gains, and will not speak out against or put them selves in the spotlight to fix issues that might reflect badly on their upward progress in the hierarchy. And from my interaction of these kinds of people, they have often been very intelligent. I believe the same behaviour and motives sadly exist for many in modern day societies.
- Vegenoid 3y ago
  Agreed. The abundance of powerful organizations that commit great harms for personal gain, both now and throughout history, makes it very clear that capable people do this. It is very hard to put myself in their shoes, and contort my brain to make their actions feel like a thing I could do.
hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
> I abandoned everything there and got out as soon as I could make any money. I wish every person capable of critical thinking just leave this dreadful place and let it descend to the middle ages. I don't begrudge you for doing that, as I would have done (and basically did) the same. But that also highlights how a lot of these places get more fucked up over time. The same thing is happening/has happened in the US. Basically, nearly all of the opportunity has moved from rural areas to urban and suburban ones. So basically anyone with the slightest modicum of ambition gets up and leaves. So all the people that are left are the people (a) without ambition or (b) are stuck there for other reasons (e.g. lots of early pregnancy). But the end result is those rural areas fall further behind, and many of the people that stay there become even more embittered about their lot. In the US the effect is even more pronounced because rural areas have outsized voting rights due to the way the electoral college and Senate work.
- kulikalov 3y ago
  Parts of population always did and always will be falling behind other parts. Humanity must ensure that an individual has the way to realize their potential. Freedom to raise and freedom to fall. The internet changed everything. The information flowing freely and allowing critical thinkers to get out of a swamp they found themselves in. At least this gives everyone a chance to see. The other thing is immigration. Your case about the US is thankfully different because one can get on a car and leave to another state or urban area. It's not as easy to get out of russia. Get a visa first. Maybe. If you have education and fit into a category. Do not fit? Too bad, there are great places like Kazakhstan that are available though.
  - RajT88 3y ago
    > there are great places like Kazakhstan that are available though. It's a very niice.
apexalpha 3y ago
>I wish every person capable of critical thinking just leave this dreadful place and let it descend to the middle ages. I think it might've already...
danielovichdk 3y ago
Russia’s murder rate is one of the highest in the world, up there with Jamaica’s. Eighty-three percent of murderers and more than 60 percent of murder victims were slobbering drunk during the deed. A typical drunken murder story goes something like this: Two middle-aged male friends meet, go back to A’s apartment, and pound four or five bottles of cheap vodka over a two-day binge. A passes out drunk; B stumbles away, rapes and strangles A’s prepubescent daughter, steals A’s microwave oven, and sets A’s apartment on fire to cover his tracks but passes out while setting the fire, then dies of smoke inhalation. (This, by the way, happened to my ex-girlfriend’s next-door neighbors.)
- avodonosov 3y ago
  Sources? In the following wikipedia article Russia's murder rate is near the world's avearage, close to the US, and 8 times lower than Jamaika. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intenti...
  - CobrastanJorji 3y ago
    There is some reason to disbelieve the official numbers. They started dropping rapidly under Putin, while the number of unidentified bodies processed by the health system climbed more or less identically: https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/russia-is-not-actually-a-very-nice https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/russia-is-not-actually-a-very-...
    - avodonosov 3y ago
      What are the sources of the alternative numbers? (Up to Jamaika, 83%, more than 60 percent, etc). As for the rates raising in 90-ies and then falling back down, that's understandable, if you know what were the 90-ies there. The same happened in all other post Soviet states.
- ryloric 3y ago
  I can't believe how unrealistic, yet totally plausible that sounds.
ed_balls 3y ago
> It's a case of mass inheritable PTSD About 8% of the world suffers from PTSD symptoms. There was a recent study done in Poland that said over 15% of population has symptoms. It is generational PTSD from WW2.
- mvdtnz 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - jjtheblunt 3y ago
    Well if the Soviets fucked up Poland in ways taking multiple pairs of decades to reverse (pollution is an obvious example, among countless others), isn't that "generational", since a generation is supposed to be roughly 20 years?
avodonosov 3y ago
You must do something about the horrific crime your neighbour did. Simple things. Collect the info: his name, surname, adress, etc - everything you can. The date this happened. List the other witnesses, potential witnesses, and other people and facts that can help investigation. Other possible crimes he committed? Who was aware and not acted? Then submit it to authorities: investigative commitee, child ombudsmen, prosecutor's office, etc. Not local, but higher, maybe even central. If the video is available, submit it too. If not adressed by all authorities (unlikely), go public with the specific and detailed information. Make sure to protect the victim's info from public.
- kulikalov 3y ago
  It happened 15 years ago. Half of the town knew that, all the police knew that. In fact the police tortures people themselves, it's not news for them. This thread is in the midst of discussion of a public person tortured for 3 years and murdered and the whole country knows that. What authorities are you talking about? It's criminals upon criminals.
  - avodonosov 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - kikimora 3y ago
      I don’t see a calculated decision to not intervene would demonstrate lack of critical thinking.
      - avodonosov 3y ago
        The wrong decision is one of the hints. If that happened as the op says, it's absolutely worth trying to bring the rapist and those who should have punished him but covered instead, to justice. It will cost several hours over couple of weeks to remember and assemble the facts and submit them (remotely). Again, it's important to not harm the victim again. That's why going through the authorities is critical, and choosing the right level - I would not report to the same town or administrative area, especially if the offender works there. If done right, chances for success are high (of course, don't bring in any Navalny or similar topics, approach it as a criminal case). Only if all possible applications to authorities fail, consider going public, but weight that in with double care about the victim. When the op was young and in the environment where no-one acted, it's possible to understand he didn't act till now. But now, IMHO, reporting this is the only right thing to do. BTW, in many jurisdictions, failure to report a serious crime, especially against children, constitutes a crime by itself.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

selimthegrim 3y ago

Oh my God this sounds like New Orleans

secondary_op 3y ago

[flagged]

emptyfile 3y ago
[dead]

MrDresden 3y ago

> How can an individual have both the critical thinking and still have the gut to contribute to this? Personal experience has taught me that critical thinking does not nessecarily go hand in hand with the ability and/or the guts to push for change. Many who move through corporate worlds do so for personal gains, and will not speak out against or put them selves in the spotlight to fix issues that might reflect badly on their upward progress in the hierarchy. And from my interaction of these kinds of people, they have often been very intelligent. I believe the same behaviour and motives sadly exist for many in modern day societies.

Vegenoid 3y ago
Agreed. The abundance of powerful organizations that commit great harms for personal gain, both now and throughout history, makes it very clear that capable people do this. It is very hard to put myself in their shoes, and contort my brain to make their actions feel like a thing I could do.

hn_throwaway_99 3y ago

> I abandoned everything there and got out as soon as I could make any money. I wish every person capable of critical thinking just leave this dreadful place and let it descend to the middle ages. I don't begrudge you for doing that, as I would have done (and basically did) the same. But that also highlights how a lot of these places get more fucked up over time. The same thing is happening/has happened in the US. Basically, nearly all of the opportunity has moved from rural areas to urban and suburban ones. So basically anyone with the slightest modicum of ambition gets up and leaves. So all the people that are left are the people (a) without ambition or (b) are stuck there for other reasons (e.g. lots of early pregnancy). But the end result is those rural areas fall further behind, and many of the people that stay there become even more embittered about their lot. In the US the effect is even more pronounced because rural areas have outsized voting rights due to the way the electoral college and Senate work.

kulikalov 3y ago
Parts of population always did and always will be falling behind other parts. Humanity must ensure that an individual has the way to realize their potential. Freedom to raise and freedom to fall. The internet changed everything. The information flowing freely and allowing critical thinkers to get out of a swamp they found themselves in. At least this gives everyone a chance to see. The other thing is immigration. Your case about the US is thankfully different because one can get on a car and leave to another state or urban area. It's not as easy to get out of russia. Get a visa first. Maybe. If you have education and fit into a category. Do not fit? Too bad, there are great places like Kazakhstan that are available though.
- RajT88 3y ago
  > there are great places like Kazakhstan that are available though. It's a very niice.

apexalpha 3y ago

>I wish every person capable of critical thinking just leave this dreadful place and let it descend to the middle ages. I think it might've already...

danielovichdk 3y ago

Russia’s murder rate is one of the highest in the world, up there with Jamaica’s. Eighty-three percent of murderers and more than 60 percent of murder victims were slobbering drunk during the deed. A typical drunken murder story goes something like this: Two middle-aged male friends meet, go back to A’s apartment, and pound four or five bottles of cheap vodka over a two-day binge. A passes out drunk; B stumbles away, rapes and strangles A’s prepubescent daughter, steals A’s microwave oven, and sets A’s apartment on fire to cover his tracks but passes out while setting the fire, then dies of smoke inhalation. (This, by the way, happened to my ex-girlfriend’s next-door neighbors.)

avodonosov 3y ago
Sources? In the following wikipedia article Russia's murder rate is near the world's avearage, close to the US, and 8 times lower than Jamaika. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intenti...
- CobrastanJorji 3y ago
  There is some reason to disbelieve the official numbers. They started dropping rapidly under Putin, while the number of unidentified bodies processed by the health system climbed more or less identically: https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/russia-is-not-actually-a-very-nice https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/russia-is-not-actually-a-very-...
  - avodonosov 3y ago
    What are the sources of the alternative numbers? (Up to Jamaika, 83%, more than 60 percent, etc). As for the rates raising in 90-ies and then falling back down, that's understandable, if you know what were the 90-ies there. The same happened in all other post Soviet states.
ryloric 3y ago
I can't believe how unrealistic, yet totally plausible that sounds.

ed_balls 3y ago

> It's a case of mass inheritable PTSD About 8% of the world suffers from PTSD symptoms. There was a recent study done in Poland that said over 15% of population has symptoms. It is generational PTSD from WW2.

mvdtnz 3y ago
[flagged]
- jjtheblunt 3y ago
  Well if the Soviets fucked up Poland in ways taking multiple pairs of decades to reverse (pollution is an obvious example, among countless others), isn't that "generational", since a generation is supposed to be roughly 20 years?

avodonosov 3y ago

You must do something about the horrific crime your neighbour did. Simple things. Collect the info: his name, surname, adress, etc - everything you can. The date this happened. List the other witnesses, potential witnesses, and other people and facts that can help investigation. Other possible crimes he committed? Who was aware and not acted? Then submit it to authorities: investigative commitee, child ombudsmen, prosecutor's office, etc. Not local, but higher, maybe even central. If the video is available, submit it too. If not adressed by all authorities (unlikely), go public with the specific and detailed information. Make sure to protect the victim's info from public.

kulikalov 3y ago
It happened 15 years ago. Half of the town knew that, all the police knew that. In fact the police tortures people themselves, it's not news for them. This thread is in the midst of discussion of a public person tortured for 3 years and murdered and the whole country knows that. What authorities are you talking about? It's criminals upon criminals.
- avodonosov 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - kikimora 3y ago
    I don’t see a calculated decision to not intervene would demonstrate lack of critical thinking.
    - avodonosov 3y ago
      The wrong decision is one of the hints. If that happened as the op says, it's absolutely worth trying to bring the rapist and those who should have punished him but covered instead, to justice. It will cost several hours over couple of weeks to remember and assemble the facts and submit them (remotely). Again, it's important to not harm the victim again. That's why going through the authorities is critical, and choosing the right level - I would not report to the same town or administrative area, especially if the offender works there. If done right, chances for success are high (of course, don't bring in any Navalny or similar topics, approach it as a criminal case). Only if all possible applications to authorities fail, consider going public, but weight that in with double care about the victim. When the op was young and in the environment where no-one acted, it's possible to understand he didn't act till now. But now, IMHO, reporting this is the only right thing to do. BTW, in many jurisdictions, failure to report a serious crime, especially against children, constitutes a crime by itself.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]