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Can’t we give Ukraine HARMs?

piva00 3y ago
The USA seems unable to give any more support due to political deadlock. It definitely could provide much more to Ukraine if both parties were aligned to the common cause of sustaining America's hegemony by being a reliable ally, right now there's one party which the whole ideology centers on going against whatever the other party does and/or supports. Even if that means allowing Putin's Russia to gain more power and influence. I don't think the vast majority of Americans understand the long-term consequences of allowing the USA to become unreliable to its closest partners (the West in general). You will be feeling this over the next few decades, America's soft power is waning.
- mschuster91 3y ago
  > It definitely could provide much more to Ukraine if both parties were aligned to the common cause of sustaining America's hegemony by being a reliable ally, right now there's one party which the whole ideology centers on going against whatever the other party does and/or supports. Even if that means allowing Putin's Russia to gain more power and influence. It's even worse. The 45th is actively calling for Russia to take what they want.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
protomolecule 3y ago
You have already done that. [0] They don't seem to work too well. [1] [0] https://aviationweek.com/defense-space/missile-defense-weapons/us-sends-more-harm-air-defense-killing-missiles-ukraine https://aviationweek.com/defense-space/missile-defense-weapo... [1] https://www.eurasiantimes.com/hamrless-missiles-us-supplied-agm-88-harms-are-failing-to-breach/ https://www.eurasiantimes.com/hamrless-missiles-us-supplied-...
- mrguyorama 3y ago
  We gave them nerfed HARMs that can't properly integrate with their soviet planes, and they have zero SEAD training. HARMs aren't magic, without the strategy and training required for good SEAD, they won't do much. Things may improve when the F-16s start flying since those are properly integrated and capable SEAD platforms.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - protomolecule 3y ago
    "Things may improve when the F-16s start flying" This could only end with tactical nukes starting flying and with the strategic ones if the US attacks Russia. Things won't 'improve' no matter what happens.
    - actionfromafar 3y ago
      Putin is done for in those scenarios. He doesn't look the type to fall on his sword.
      - protomolecule 3y ago
        In which scenario he isn't done for if the US keeps escalating?
        actionfromafar 3y ago
        I think Putin can find a way to exit the Ukraine and define that as a success if he wants to. But he still thinks he has a chance to win on the battlefield, so he has no motivation to do that.
        protomolecule 3y ago
        How can he exit if Zelensky's goal is to retake Crimea, Donetsk and Lugansk?
terafo 3y ago
Ukrainan Air Force has HARMs, but they are VERY limited in their capabilities due to them being employed from soviet-era jets. Basically area where target resides have to be pre-programmed on the ground, rocket then flies to that area and lock on any radar it finds there. But what previous commenter missed is that even if Russian air defenses are suppressed, their planes outclass Ukrainian ones. For example, air to air missiles that UAF has available need to be guided by planes radar all the way through, also that missiles have shorter range than something like R-37, which is fire and forget with VERY high range. Western air to air missiles are much better than what Ukraine has right now, but they can't be fired from Su-27 or MiG-29, they require something like F-16 or Gripen, but while a bunch of European countries agreed to transfer them, Ukrainian pilots and ground crews don't know how to operate them, and need to be trained, which happens right now. If there were trained beforehand it would've changed current situation on the front lines VERY significantly.

The USA seems unable to give any more support due to political deadlock. It definitely could provide much more to Ukraine if both parties were aligned to the common cause of sustaining America's hegemony by being a reliable ally, right now there's one party which the whole ideology centers on going against whatever the other party does and/or supports. Even if that means allowing Putin's Russia to gain more power and influence. I don't think the vast majority of Americans understand the long-term consequences of allowing the USA to become unreliable to its closest partners (the West in general). You will be feeling this over the next few decades, America's soft power is waning.

mschuster91 3y ago
> It definitely could provide much more to Ukraine if both parties were aligned to the common cause of sustaining America's hegemony by being a reliable ally, right now there's one party which the whole ideology centers on going against whatever the other party does and/or supports. Even if that means allowing Putin's Russia to gain more power and influence. It's even worse. The 45th is actively calling for Russia to take what they want.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

protomolecule 3y ago

You have already done that. [0] They don't seem to work too well. [1] [0] https://aviationweek.com/defense-space/missile-defense-weapons/us-sends-more-harm-air-defense-killing-missiles-ukraine https://aviationweek.com/defense-space/missile-defense-weapo... [1] https://www.eurasiantimes.com/hamrless-missiles-us-supplied-agm-88-harms-are-failing-to-breach/ https://www.eurasiantimes.com/hamrless-missiles-us-supplied-...

mrguyorama 3y ago
We gave them nerfed HARMs that can't properly integrate with their soviet planes, and they have zero SEAD training. HARMs aren't magic, without the strategy and training required for good SEAD, they won't do much. Things may improve when the F-16s start flying since those are properly integrated and capable SEAD platforms.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- protomolecule 3y ago
  "Things may improve when the F-16s start flying" This could only end with tactical nukes starting flying and with the strategic ones if the US attacks Russia. Things won't 'improve' no matter what happens.
  - actionfromafar 3y ago
    Putin is done for in those scenarios. He doesn't look the type to fall on his sword.
    - protomolecule 3y ago
      In which scenario he isn't done for if the US keeps escalating?
      - actionfromafar 3y ago
        I think Putin can find a way to exit the Ukraine and define that as a success if he wants to. But he still thinks he has a chance to win on the battlefield, so he has no motivation to do that.
        protomolecule 3y ago
        How can he exit if Zelensky's goal is to retake Crimea, Donetsk and Lugansk?

terafo 3y ago

Ukrainan Air Force has HARMs, but they are VERY limited in their capabilities due to them being employed from soviet-era jets. Basically area where target resides have to be pre-programmed on the ground, rocket then flies to that area and lock on any radar it finds there. But what previous commenter missed is that even if Russian air defenses are suppressed, their planes outclass Ukrainian ones. For example, air to air missiles that UAF has available need to be guided by planes radar all the way through, also that missiles have shorter range than something like R-37, which is fire and forget with VERY high range. Western air to air missiles are much better than what Ukraine has right now, but they can't be fired from Su-27 or MiG-29, they require something like F-16 or Gripen, but while a bunch of European countries agreed to transfer them, Ukrainian pilots and ground crews don't know how to operate them, and need to be trained, which happens right now. If there were trained beforehand it would've changed current situation on the front lines VERY significantly.