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> The way these models are creative is the same way humans are We have no idea how human creativity works, but we know with certainty that it doesn't involve a

> The way these models are creative is the same way humans are We have no idea how human creativity works, but we know with certainty that it doesn't involve a Python program sucking in pixel data and outputting statistical likelihoods.

jerojero 3y ago
You know, Ive seen people do amazing things with math equations. Beautiful visualisations. As these tools improve and it becomes more possible for us to actually take our ideas into images and videos that fit a sort of "yes this is what I want" bill we are going to see amazing things come out. I mean, a few days ago I saw this clearly AI generated video of some wizards doing snowboard and having a blast in the mountains. It's one of the funniest things I've seen in a while, simply so ridiculous. Obviously someone had the idea "I want to make a video of wizards doing snowboard in a mountain" that's where creativity lies. So to say "creativity doesn't involve a python program outputting statistical likelihoods" imo is just you saying you're not creative enough to know what to do with the tools you've been given. Some people when they see a strawberry they see a fruit. Others see endless dishes where the fruit is just an ingredient.
- jazzyjackson 3y ago
  rude obviously you can use python to create works of art whether a python script can itself be creative is the question posed by OP, but you went with "you're just not creative enough to get it"
ben_w 3y ago
Those Python programs are (loosely) inspired by how organic brains work. (I still have on my to-do list "learn more about why Hebbian learning is different from gradient descent and how much those differences matter").
eric_cc 3y ago
We do have, at the very least, an idea about how human creativity works and it is an input output pattern.
- goatlover 3y ago
  That's a meaningless statement. Any interacting physical system is an "input output" pattern, as long as you're only looking at the inputs and outputs. Behaviorism fell out of favor for a reason. It's whats transforming inputs and creating outputs that matters. For that matter, you need to be able to define what an input and an output is for humans, given that we have bodies.

jerojero 3y ago

You know, Ive seen people do amazing things with math equations. Beautiful visualisations. As these tools improve and it becomes more possible for us to actually take our ideas into images and videos that fit a sort of "yes this is what I want" bill we are going to see amazing things come out. I mean, a few days ago I saw this clearly AI generated video of some wizards doing snowboard and having a blast in the mountains. It's one of the funniest things I've seen in a while, simply so ridiculous. Obviously someone had the idea "I want to make a video of wizards doing snowboard in a mountain" that's where creativity lies. So to say "creativity doesn't involve a python program outputting statistical likelihoods" imo is just you saying you're not creative enough to know what to do with the tools you've been given. Some people when they see a strawberry they see a fruit. Others see endless dishes where the fruit is just an ingredient.

jazzyjackson 3y ago
rude obviously you can use python to create works of art whether a python script can itself be creative is the question posed by OP, but you went with "you're just not creative enough to get it"

ben_w 3y ago

Those Python programs are (loosely) inspired by how organic brains work. (I still have on my to-do list "learn more about why Hebbian learning is different from gradient descent and how much those differences matter").

eric_cc 3y ago

We do have, at the very least, an idea about how human creativity works and it is an input output pattern.

goatlover 3y ago
That's a meaningless statement. Any interacting physical system is an "input output" pattern, as long as you're only looking at the inputs and outputs. Behaviorism fell out of favor for a reason. It's whats transforming inputs and creating outputs that matters. For that matter, you need to be able to define what an input and an output is for humans, given that we have bodies.