3 ms·

The lessons of yesteryear's OS are getting lost in translation. This is by me on El Reg, and it's part 2 of this year's FOSDEM talk. It will (I hope!) make mor

The lessons of yesteryear's OS are getting lost in translation. This is by me on El Reg, and it's part 2 of this year's FOSDEM talk. It will (I hope!) make more sense in context with the rest.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
gumby 3y ago
It’s a ramble that ends up with a complaint that Wayland doesn’t fit into the stream file model that’s supposedly critical to “unix”. Block files have been in Unix forever and they don’t either. Maybe read “Worse is Better” before writing part 3. And “Unix” is orthogonal with FLOSS. Sorry to be such a downer — been reading el reg since it started.
- lproven 3y ago
  > Maybe read “Worse is Better” before writing part 3. Way ahead o' ya, kid. https://www.theregister.com/2023/12/25/the_war_of_the_workstations/ https://www.theregister.com/2023/12/25/the_war_of_the_workst... Note that this is loosely based on part of a FOSDEM talk I gave 4 years ago.
cjs_ac 3y ago
Part 3 is going to be about Plan 9 and Redox OS, right?
- lproven 3y ago
  It is indeed going to be about Plan 9. :-) The talk was a couple of weeks ago now and is already online: https://fosdem.org/2024/schedule/event/fosdem-2024-3095-one-way-forward-finding-a-path-to-what-comes-after-unix/ https://fosdem.org/2024/schedule/event/fosdem-2024-3095-one-... I linked to it in the first paragraph. You can read the script if you want. Redox, OTOH, no: it does not even enter into it. Although I do not address it, if pressed, I might concede that if there is a Rust involvement, it's R9, the successor to Harvey OS. https://github.com/r9os/r9 https://github.com/r9os/r9
torstenvl 3y ago
I read the article, and I didn't see this point made. Mostly it was a very long description of the history of Unix, with a tangent about microkernels. Your headings are What is 'Unix' anyway? Generations and the gaps between Turn it up to 11 I believe your ultimate point is about Wayland and perhaps that it should follow everything-is-a-file. But that comes so late in the article that you barely give it a passing mention, and it isn't consistent with the premise of the article.
- lproven 3y ago
  > I believe your ultimate point is about Wayland Nah. :-) I am not terribly interested in Wayland, myself, and I suspect that in the fullness of time it will turn out to be a not-very-interesting blind alley.
  - torstenvl 3y ago
    Okay. So what is the thesis of this article and where is it discussed?
    - lproven 3y ago
      As it says, and links, in the first paragraph of the story: « This article is the second based on The Reg FOSS desk's talk at FOSDEM 2024 (part 1 was Drowning in code). » That para contains hyperlinks to both. The talk was a couple of weeks ago now and is already online: https://fosdem.org/2024/schedule/event/fosdem-2024-3095-one- https://fosdem.org/2024/schedule/event/fosdem-2024-3095-one-... You can read the script if you want.
      - torstenvl 3y ago
        The existence of more than one article based on a talk does not by itself suggest that they are dependencies of one another; nor does it excuse rambling. The title of the OP is "Forgetting the history of Unix is coding us into a corner." At no point do you explain who is forgetting what lessons, or why such forgetting is coding us into a corner. In any case, the history is interesting and clearly well-researched. I offer as constructive criticism that your structure and clarity could benefit from continued editing.
Diris 3y ago
I saw the talk at FOSDEM and greatly enjoyed it. Someone sitting next to me was busy coding on 9front haha
- lproven 3y ago
  :-D Thanks! I had some great feedback from some 9Front folks and ended up meeting up with a bunch of them after the event. Given that I was half-expecting a lynch mob, this was a very pleasant surprise indeed... ;-)

The lessons of yesteryear's OS are getting lost in translation. This is by me on El Reg, and it's part 2 of this year's FOSDEM talk. It will (I hope!) make more sense in context with the rest.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

gumby 3y ago

It’s a ramble that ends up with a complaint that Wayland doesn’t fit into the stream file model that’s supposedly critical to “unix”. Block files have been in Unix forever and they don’t either. Maybe read “Worse is Better” before writing part 3. And “Unix” is orthogonal with FLOSS. Sorry to be such a downer — been reading el reg since it started.

lproven 3y ago
> Maybe read “Worse is Better” before writing part 3. Way ahead o' ya, kid. https://www.theregister.com/2023/12/25/the_war_of_the_workstations/ https://www.theregister.com/2023/12/25/the_war_of_the_workst... Note that this is loosely based on part of a FOSDEM talk I gave 4 years ago.

cjs_ac 3y ago

Part 3 is going to be about Plan 9 and Redox OS, right?

lproven 3y ago
It is indeed going to be about Plan 9. :-) The talk was a couple of weeks ago now and is already online: https://fosdem.org/2024/schedule/event/fosdem-2024-3095-one-way-forward-finding-a-path-to-what-comes-after-unix/ https://fosdem.org/2024/schedule/event/fosdem-2024-3095-one-... I linked to it in the first paragraph. You can read the script if you want. Redox, OTOH, no: it does not even enter into it. Although I do not address it, if pressed, I might concede that if there is a Rust involvement, it's R9, the successor to Harvey OS. https://github.com/r9os/r9 https://github.com/r9os/r9

torstenvl 3y ago

I read the article, and I didn't see this point made. Mostly it was a very long description of the history of Unix, with a tangent about microkernels. Your headings are What is 'Unix' anyway? Generations and the gaps between Turn it up to 11 I believe your ultimate point is about Wayland and perhaps that it should follow everything-is-a-file. But that comes so late in the article that you barely give it a passing mention, and it isn't consistent with the premise of the article.

lproven 3y ago
> I believe your ultimate point is about Wayland Nah. :-) I am not terribly interested in Wayland, myself, and I suspect that in the fullness of time it will turn out to be a not-very-interesting blind alley.
- torstenvl 3y ago
  Okay. So what is the thesis of this article and where is it discussed?
  - lproven 3y ago
    As it says, and links, in the first paragraph of the story: « This article is the second based on The Reg FOSS desk's talk at FOSDEM 2024 (part 1 was Drowning in code). » That para contains hyperlinks to both. The talk was a couple of weeks ago now and is already online: https://fosdem.org/2024/schedule/event/fosdem-2024-3095-one- https://fosdem.org/2024/schedule/event/fosdem-2024-3095-one-... You can read the script if you want.
    - torstenvl 3y ago
      The existence of more than one article based on a talk does not by itself suggest that they are dependencies of one another; nor does it excuse rambling. The title of the OP is "Forgetting the history of Unix is coding us into a corner." At no point do you explain who is forgetting what lessons, or why such forgetting is coding us into a corner. In any case, the history is interesting and clearly well-researched. I offer as constructive criticism that your structure and clarity could benefit from continued editing.

Diris 3y ago

I saw the talk at FOSDEM and greatly enjoyed it. Someone sitting next to me was busy coding on 9front haha

lproven 3y ago
:-D Thanks! I had some great feedback from some 9Front folks and ended up meeting up with a bunch of them after the event. Given that I was half-expecting a lynch mob, this was a very pleasant surprise indeed... ;-)