4 ms·

Does anyone know why NATO/US never gave Ukraine what they were asking for! jets, Anti-air systems, ATACMs, etc?

buster 3y ago
Maybe because, on the other side of the table sits a lunatic with a massive amount of atomic bombs. Also, because Ukraine is not NATO.
- beretguy 3y ago
  And now they want to put those atomic bombs into space, cause we let them know that we won’t do anything about it.
jncfhnb 3y ago
The republicans mostly
r0ckarong 3y ago
Because this whole shit is just another cold war meant to drive the interest of power on both sides. The west got justification to jack up prices on everything in the name of "energy crisis because we need to do the right thing" and the East can expand their power and nationalize western businesses in the name of "sanctions" that happen to be relabeled and still run profitably through shell companies. It's all just another big squeeze to wring some more out of the normal folk.
- seanw444 3y ago
  And just like every other time, you're the stupid one if you don't vote in lockstep with the current trendy war. And then two decades later after the war, when people aren't so vehemently biased one way or the other, then everyone agrees again "war is stupid - why did everyone fall for it?"
  - arp242 3y ago
    It's not "trendy" nor is there anything to "fall for" because no one choose this war except Russia's leadership. It was forced upon everyone else.
    - seanw444 3y ago
      I'm talking about foreign involvement.
  - mrguyorama 3y ago
    Were we also wrong to defend Kuwait from Saddam? This isn't the bullshit Bush pulled in the desert, this is defending a mostly free nation from hostile action of it's neighbor.
mihaaly 3y ago
Trying to postpone a direct conflict with Russia perhaps? Attempting some Chamberlainian achievement in preserving peace against a ruthless and untrustworty agressor? Hopeless efforts of course but the stakes and anticipated damages are quite high actually for being not too eager escalating.
joseph_grobbles 3y ago
[dead]
jonathanstrange 3y ago
Just domestic politics under effective Russian influencing campaigns ("America first"). If the Democrats were against Ukraine and pro-Russia, Republicans would be violently pro-Ukraine. There is no other reason.
delecti 3y ago
The theory I've heard is it's to limit US tech being used to strike into Russia.
- adrr 3y ago
  Like Novichok being used by Russia in England to assassinate UK citizens. I don't get why the west is afraid of escalation when Russia just does whatever they want. Russia shows no restraint. They crashed an expensive NATO drone recently. Correct response is to shoot down their planes if they crash ours. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Sergei_and_Yulia_Skripal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Sergei_and_Yulia_...
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
They have anti-air and ATACMs. Jets are coming. Their pilots are training. https://www.voanews.com/a/ukrainians-start-f-16-training-in-arizona-/7329228.html https://www.voanews.com/a/ukrainians-start-f-16-training-in-... https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67135163 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67135163 https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/06/world/europe/ukraine-patriots-us.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/06/world/europe/ukraine-patr...
terafo 3y ago
"Escalation management" through "slowly boiling the frog" combined with lack of coherent strategy for the war, partially because some western politicians are afraid of Russia's tantrum in case of Ukrainian victory(using nukes if Crimea is lost, for example), and that are balancing aid so it's enough for Ukraine not loosing, but not enough for Ukraine winning. Equipment that would've been sufficient to win the war in 2022(before Russia constructed massive defensive lines) was delivered in 2023, largely in the second half of 2023. And there's not that many signs that it might change.
ianburrell 3y ago
More important question is how is it that you don't know that NATO has given Ukraine all of those? Patriot and NASAMs batteries have been defending Ukraine for a while. ATACMS have been used against Russian air fields. F-16s aren't being used there is a lot of training first, but they have been delivered.
cdeutsch 3y ago
It's Trump's fault for telling his sheep not to pass the bipartisan immigration bill which included aid for Ukraine.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
elihu 3y ago
The US did give them a lot (HIMARS, Bradleys, ATACMS, a few Abrams, cluster munitions) and Europe did too (Storm Shadow, Scalp, Leopards). I don't remember whether the Patriot batteries came from the U.S. or were traded out of some European countries. The U.S. could have supplied a lot of the advanced weapons much sooner, but Biden dithered. Supposedly Ukraine will get F-16s any day now. For now, U.S. aid is being blocked by Republicans in Congress who insisted that Ukraine and Israel aid be lumped into a border bill, but then they abandoned the border bill and speaker Johnson is blocking a vote in the House. There's no policy reason for this, it's just that they want to make Biden look bad in an election year and a lot of representatives are afraid of angering Trump and his supporters.
- dilyevsky 3y ago
  > I don't remember whether the Patriot batteries came from the U.S. or were traded out of some European countries. Two from US, one (mobile version) from Germany

Maybe because, on the other side of the table sits a lunatic with a massive amount of atomic bombs. Also, because Ukraine is not NATO.

beretguy 3y ago
And now they want to put those atomic bombs into space, cause we let them know that we won’t do anything about it.

jncfhnb 3y ago

The republicans mostly

r0ckarong 3y ago

Because this whole shit is just another cold war meant to drive the interest of power on both sides. The west got justification to jack up prices on everything in the name of "energy crisis because we need to do the right thing" and the East can expand their power and nationalize western businesses in the name of "sanctions" that happen to be relabeled and still run profitably through shell companies. It's all just another big squeeze to wring some more out of the normal folk.

seanw444 3y ago
And just like every other time, you're the stupid one if you don't vote in lockstep with the current trendy war. And then two decades later after the war, when people aren't so vehemently biased one way or the other, then everyone agrees again "war is stupid - why did everyone fall for it?"
- arp242 3y ago
  It's not "trendy" nor is there anything to "fall for" because no one choose this war except Russia's leadership. It was forced upon everyone else.
  - seanw444 3y ago
    I'm talking about foreign involvement.
- mrguyorama 3y ago
  Were we also wrong to defend Kuwait from Saddam? This isn't the bullshit Bush pulled in the desert, this is defending a mostly free nation from hostile action of it's neighbor.

mihaaly 3y ago

Trying to postpone a direct conflict with Russia perhaps? Attempting some Chamberlainian achievement in preserving peace against a ruthless and untrustworty agressor? Hopeless efforts of course but the stakes and anticipated damages are quite high actually for being not too eager escalating.

joseph_grobbles 3y ago

[dead]

jonathanstrange 3y ago

Just domestic politics under effective Russian influencing campaigns ("America first"). If the Democrats were against Ukraine and pro-Russia, Republicans would be violently pro-Ukraine. There is no other reason.

delecti 3y ago

The theory I've heard is it's to limit US tech being used to strike into Russia.

adrr 3y ago
Like Novichok being used by Russia in England to assassinate UK citizens. I don't get why the west is afraid of escalation when Russia just does whatever they want. Russia shows no restraint. They crashed an expensive NATO drone recently. Correct response is to shoot down their planes if they crash ours. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Sergei_and_Yulia_Skripal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Sergei_and_Yulia_...

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago

They have anti-air and ATACMs. Jets are coming. Their pilots are training. https://www.voanews.com/a/ukrainians-start-f-16-training-in-arizona-/7329228.html https://www.voanews.com/a/ukrainians-start-f-16-training-in-... https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67135163 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67135163 https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/06/world/europe/ukraine-patriots-us.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/06/world/europe/ukraine-patr...

terafo 3y ago

"Escalation management" through "slowly boiling the frog" combined with lack of coherent strategy for the war, partially because some western politicians are afraid of Russia's tantrum in case of Ukrainian victory(using nukes if Crimea is lost, for example), and that are balancing aid so it's enough for Ukraine not loosing, but not enough for Ukraine winning. Equipment that would've been sufficient to win the war in 2022(before Russia constructed massive defensive lines) was delivered in 2023, largely in the second half of 2023. And there's not that many signs that it might change.

ianburrell 3y ago

More important question is how is it that you don't know that NATO has given Ukraine all of those? Patriot and NASAMs batteries have been defending Ukraine for a while. ATACMS have been used against Russian air fields. F-16s aren't being used there is a lot of training first, but they have been delivered.

cdeutsch 3y ago

It's Trump's fault for telling his sheep not to pass the bipartisan immigration bill which included aid for Ukraine.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

elihu 3y ago

The US did give them a lot (HIMARS, Bradleys, ATACMS, a few Abrams, cluster munitions) and Europe did too (Storm Shadow, Scalp, Leopards). I don't remember whether the Patriot batteries came from the U.S. or were traded out of some European countries. The U.S. could have supplied a lot of the advanced weapons much sooner, but Biden dithered. Supposedly Ukraine will get F-16s any day now. For now, U.S. aid is being blocked by Republicans in Congress who insisted that Ukraine and Israel aid be lumped into a border bill, but then they abandoned the border bill and speaker Johnson is blocking a vote in the House. There's no policy reason for this, it's just that they want to make Biden look bad in an election year and a lot of representatives are afraid of angering Trump and his supporters.

dilyevsky 3y ago
> I don't remember whether the Patriot batteries came from the U.S. or were traded out of some European countries. Two from US, one (mobile version) from Germany