4 ms·

>Sending money there avoids bringing the problems to Poland and Germany I‘d argue that refugees, 50% of whom intend to stay, are the reason why EU is the only

>Sending money there avoids bringing the problems to Poland and Germany I‘d argue that refugees, 50% of whom intend to stay, are the reason why EU is the only party to win something from this war. I actively support Ukrainian refugees by giving them some work and talk to people: those who will stay, want to integrate and they offer some relief to the job markets.

KingOfCoders 3y ago
"some relief to the job markets." I agree and have done the same with Syrian refugees.
- ivan_gammel 3y ago
  Oh, yes, Syrians. Danke, Merkel, I found some good IT admins from there.
  - piva00 3y ago
    In Sweden two of my favourite doctors are Syrian refugees, they gave me more humane and personal care than many Swedish doctors I've been to. My landlord (and by far the best landlord I've had in Sweden) is another refugee doctor, a very laid back Iraqian pulmonologist, to the point I even invite him over to have some beers during summers.
StockHuman 3y ago
NATO already won; it has expanded and defence commitments are up, and that is besides the renewed raison d’être Russia has leased it. The US defence industry has seen a minor win, too. It will reap the long-term win of new NATO accessions. The EU got a wakeup call (not so much a win, but hey) to seek energy independence from belligerent petrostates, so that could be seen as a future win.
- ivan_gammel 3y ago
  I‘m not sure about NATO, at least while Trumpism exists in America. If U.S. voters will think that Europe has to be sacrificed in favor of bilateral Russian-American deal, NATO is effectively as dead as it was pre-war. U.S.defense industry will also depend on that. If Trump wins and commits to do everything he promised, they will be in a weaker position, loosing foreign markets one by one.
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    There is a lot of money riding on NATOs continued existence and I think if Trump decides to pull the USA out of NATO he will be in for a rude surprise. Playing with the climate accords was dumb enough and didn't have any immediate impact, if the USA visibly isolates itself from NATO after other countries supporting the USA in various efforts over the last couple of decades then the world as you know it will grind to a very rapid halt and the United States will be the big loser from that unless Trump is reigned in. I would expect him to receive a couple of very pointed reminders of what the consequences of such a move would be. Fortunately even an unhinged TV personality can not single-handedly destroy a country and what it has stood for for the last 70+ years.
    - fooblaster 3y ago
      Not to nitpick, but trump could singlehandedly destroy the United states in an afternoon. The presidency has absolute control over the use of the nuclear arsenal. One strike on China, in a conflict over Taiwan and the country will be blown to pieces. I don't think that's likely - but one cannot deny it is possible.
      - KerrAvon 3y ago
        Any scenario where anyone throws a nuke means the __world__ will be blown to pieces. That's a different scale of issue.
      - lr1970 3y ago
        This is not a serious argument. By the same token, putin or comrade xi can do the same if they feel suicidal. There are controls in place (or at least on the paper) that prevent a crazy president from running amok with the nukes.
randunel 3y ago
How do you do that? I've hosted refugees for free, as opposed to locals who've had to pay for hotel stays, but I'm not discriminating against locals when hiring. How do you "actively support refugees by giving them some work" in a way that's legal, without hiring bias?
- ivan_gammel 3y ago
  E.g. I use cleaning services from a company that employs refugees. Besides, using only specific recruiting channels to select candidates from certain demographics is not a discrimination. If locals would apply this way, I would consider them, but honestly… In Germany, esp. in Berlin hiring locals? The market is so tight, that by just removing the German language requirement you will find some immigrant faster.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    >If locals would apply this way, I would consider them What way do you mean, how exactly should they apply?
    - ivan_gammel 3y ago
      Why are you asking? I have no idea, neither I care about it. If I want to hit a diversity target, I just go to a specific channel, be it some refugee job board, a women in tech community or anything else. If someone unintended sneaks through it, fine, as long as they don’t lie to me.
      - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
        Was just curios, and wanted to understand what you meant.

KingOfCoders 3y ago

"some relief to the job markets." I agree and have done the same with Syrian refugees.

ivan_gammel 3y ago
Oh, yes, Syrians. Danke, Merkel, I found some good IT admins from there.
- piva00 3y ago
  In Sweden two of my favourite doctors are Syrian refugees, they gave me more humane and personal care than many Swedish doctors I've been to. My landlord (and by far the best landlord I've had in Sweden) is another refugee doctor, a very laid back Iraqian pulmonologist, to the point I even invite him over to have some beers during summers.

StockHuman 3y ago

NATO already won; it has expanded and defence commitments are up, and that is besides the renewed raison d’être Russia has leased it. The US defence industry has seen a minor win, too. It will reap the long-term win of new NATO accessions. The EU got a wakeup call (not so much a win, but hey) to seek energy independence from belligerent petrostates, so that could be seen as a future win.

ivan_gammel 3y ago
I‘m not sure about NATO, at least while Trumpism exists in America. If U.S. voters will think that Europe has to be sacrificed in favor of bilateral Russian-American deal, NATO is effectively as dead as it was pre-war. U.S.defense industry will also depend on that. If Trump wins and commits to do everything he promised, they will be in a weaker position, loosing foreign markets one by one.
- jacquesm 3y ago
  There is a lot of money riding on NATOs continued existence and I think if Trump decides to pull the USA out of NATO he will be in for a rude surprise. Playing with the climate accords was dumb enough and didn't have any immediate impact, if the USA visibly isolates itself from NATO after other countries supporting the USA in various efforts over the last couple of decades then the world as you know it will grind to a very rapid halt and the United States will be the big loser from that unless Trump is reigned in. I would expect him to receive a couple of very pointed reminders of what the consequences of such a move would be. Fortunately even an unhinged TV personality can not single-handedly destroy a country and what it has stood for for the last 70+ years.
  - fooblaster 3y ago
    Not to nitpick, but trump could singlehandedly destroy the United states in an afternoon. The presidency has absolute control over the use of the nuclear arsenal. One strike on China, in a conflict over Taiwan and the country will be blown to pieces. I don't think that's likely - but one cannot deny it is possible.
    - KerrAvon 3y ago
      Any scenario where anyone throws a nuke means the __world__ will be blown to pieces. That's a different scale of issue.
    - lr1970 3y ago
      This is not a serious argument. By the same token, putin or comrade xi can do the same if they feel suicidal. There are controls in place (or at least on the paper) that prevent a crazy president from running amok with the nukes.

randunel 3y ago

How do you do that? I've hosted refugees for free, as opposed to locals who've had to pay for hotel stays, but I'm not discriminating against locals when hiring. How do you "actively support refugees by giving them some work" in a way that's legal, without hiring bias?

ivan_gammel 3y ago
E.g. I use cleaning services from a company that employs refugees. Besides, using only specific recruiting channels to select candidates from certain demographics is not a discrimination. If locals would apply this way, I would consider them, but honestly… In Germany, esp. in Berlin hiring locals? The market is so tight, that by just removing the German language requirement you will find some immigrant faster.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  >If locals would apply this way, I would consider them What way do you mean, how exactly should they apply?
  - ivan_gammel 3y ago
    Why are you asking? I have no idea, neither I care about it. If I want to hit a diversity target, I just go to a specific channel, be it some refugee job board, a women in tech community or anything else. If someone unintended sneaks through it, fine, as long as they don’t lie to me.
    - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
      Was just curios, and wanted to understand what you meant.