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Like accepting Russian refugees, lots of them. Putin can't fight a war if he has no people. Ban them from defense sensitive industries for 1 generation and spre

Like accepting Russian refugees, lots of them. Putin can't fight a war if he has no people. Ban them from defense sensitive industries for 1 generation and spread them around Europe, US and elsewhere. It's also the humane thing to do. Accept any LGBT and any Russian who lives outside of Moscow or St Petersburg who are being forcibly conscripted for the meat grinder at 10x higher rates (effectively murdered).

toomuchtodo 3y ago
Indeed, drain the country of anyone of value while enabling better lives for these people. Extend comfortable retirement plans to anyone responsible for maintaining Russian nuclear hardware to drain the institutional knowledge needed for maintenance and operations; use this information to prepare to disarm it. Russia’s nuclear arsenal is currently the only thing holding the world back from taking aggressive action. Defang the cobra.
actionfromafar 3y ago
It would be a grand and very effective move if done in a major way. Half-done it could be very dangerous - getting many well-connected and affluent people with nothing against in principle to the Russian invasion of Ukraine, but who don't like the practical consequences for themselves.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- hackerlight 3y ago
  > Half-done it could be very dangerous - getting many well-connected and affluent people with nothing against in principle to the Russian invasion of Ukraine, but who don't like the practical consequences for themselves. Maybe disallow them from voting in local elections for 8 years after immigration so they have no political influence. And spread them around many countries so they're less than 1% of the general population. Even if they're pro-Putin it might still be a net good getting them out of Russia. It's now a war of attrition, the #1 thing that matters is manpower (manpower for conscription, and manpower for industrial production).
  - actionfromafar 3y ago
    Another thing to consider - if you brain drain a country - who will pick up the pieces when a regime falls? You want someone able to keep things organized when the state cracks.
    - jacquesm 3y ago
      That's important, but it is also not the problem we have today. Right now what we have is an out-of-control nuclear weapons wielding/threatening kleptocracy that murders many thousands of people every month. Picking up the pieces is the next problem and the sooner we have that problem the better. It is definitely worthwhile to point at this problem because to a large extent that's how we ended up with this mess in the first place, but it is not the immediate one and arguably an easier one to solve than the one that we have now, especially given lessons learned.
    - throw-the-towel 3y ago
      In the event of regime change, going back will absolutely be a non-issue. Hell, some of us are preparing for it right now [0]. [0] https://firstflight.today/ https://firstflight.today/
jacquesm 3y ago
I'm totally for it and I will support any Russian that leaves their home country to withdraw their support for the war in any way I can - and have already done so, so this is not just words.
justsomehnguy 3y ago
>Like accepting Russian refugees, lots of them Russians tried to do that. Got labeled murders and told in words and actions to 'get back to their shithole' or outright to just die. Quite surprising, that wasn't viewed favourably by other Russians.
- throw-the-towel 3y ago
  [flagged]
throw-the-towel 3y ago
Meanwhile, some Russian emigres are actually returning because the sanctions, and general public distrust, are making life quite hard for them in the West. As a Russian emigre myself, I can say that when you are calling for sanctions, you're calling for people like me to get screwed. Putin and his cronies don't seem too much damaged, on the other hand.
- jacquesm 3y ago
  This is always a tough thing. I think the best sanctions are the ones that hurt the sanctioner more than the sanctionee, that way at least there is a clear negation of any such argument and that any kind of damage to the sitting regime is what it is all about. What doesn't stop to surprise me is that in every occasion that such dictators rise to the top of the foodchain there there is a whole cadre of enablers that can't wait to be part of the machine. Without them it wouldn't get off the ground. But they always exist and they always seem to exist in large enough numbers that these assholes get to make their play, to the bitter end in most cases.

toomuchtodo 3y ago

Indeed, drain the country of anyone of value while enabling better lives for these people. Extend comfortable retirement plans to anyone responsible for maintaining Russian nuclear hardware to drain the institutional knowledge needed for maintenance and operations; use this information to prepare to disarm it. Russia’s nuclear arsenal is currently the only thing holding the world back from taking aggressive action. Defang the cobra.

actionfromafar 3y ago

It would be a grand and very effective move if done in a major way. Half-done it could be very dangerous - getting many well-connected and affluent people with nothing against in principle to the Russian invasion of Ukraine, but who don't like the practical consequences for themselves.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
hackerlight 3y ago
> Half-done it could be very dangerous - getting many well-connected and affluent people with nothing against in principle to the Russian invasion of Ukraine, but who don't like the practical consequences for themselves. Maybe disallow them from voting in local elections for 8 years after immigration so they have no political influence. And spread them around many countries so they're less than 1% of the general population. Even if they're pro-Putin it might still be a net good getting them out of Russia. It's now a war of attrition, the #1 thing that matters is manpower (manpower for conscription, and manpower for industrial production).
- actionfromafar 3y ago
  Another thing to consider - if you brain drain a country - who will pick up the pieces when a regime falls? You want someone able to keep things organized when the state cracks.
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    That's important, but it is also not the problem we have today. Right now what we have is an out-of-control nuclear weapons wielding/threatening kleptocracy that murders many thousands of people every month. Picking up the pieces is the next problem and the sooner we have that problem the better. It is definitely worthwhile to point at this problem because to a large extent that's how we ended up with this mess in the first place, but it is not the immediate one and arguably an easier one to solve than the one that we have now, especially given lessons learned.
  - throw-the-towel 3y ago
    In the event of regime change, going back will absolutely be a non-issue. Hell, some of us are preparing for it right now [0]. [0] https://firstflight.today/ https://firstflight.today/

jacquesm 3y ago

I'm totally for it and I will support any Russian that leaves their home country to withdraw their support for the war in any way I can - and have already done so, so this is not just words.

justsomehnguy 3y ago

>Like accepting Russian refugees, lots of them Russians tried to do that. Got labeled murders and told in words and actions to 'get back to their shithole' or outright to just die. Quite surprising, that wasn't viewed favourably by other Russians.

throw-the-towel 3y ago
[flagged]

throw-the-towel 3y ago

Meanwhile, some Russian emigres are actually returning because the sanctions, and general public distrust, are making life quite hard for them in the West. As a Russian emigre myself, I can say that when you are calling for sanctions, you're calling for people like me to get screwed. Putin and his cronies don't seem too much damaged, on the other hand.

jacquesm 3y ago
This is always a tough thing. I think the best sanctions are the ones that hurt the sanctioner more than the sanctionee, that way at least there is a clear negation of any such argument and that any kind of damage to the sitting regime is what it is all about. What doesn't stop to surprise me is that in every occasion that such dictators rise to the top of the foodchain there there is a whole cadre of enablers that can't wait to be part of the machine. Without them it wouldn't get off the ground. But they always exist and they always seem to exist in large enough numbers that these assholes get to make their play, to the bitter end in most cases.