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> This is not “influence and inspiration”, this is companies feeding other people’s work into a commercial product which they sell access to. The product would

> This is not “influence and inspiration”, this is companies feeding other people’s work into a commercial product which they sell access to. The product would be useless without other people’s work, therefore they should be compensated. How else do you get influence and inspiration without feeding other people's work into your own brain? Do you know a single artist, writer, or musician who hasn't seen other artists' paintings, read other writers' books, or listened to other musician's music? Ingesting content is the core of how influence, inspiration, and learning work. > The camera enabled something that was not possible before… The only thing this stuff revolutionises is new ways to not pay people. It's never been possible to generate thoughts, writing, and images so quickly and at such a high level. It's made creative pursuits accessible to billions who previously didn't have the skill or time to do them well, or the money to hire others. As a random example, I have friends using ChatGPT to compose creative and personalized poems and notes about each other. Not something they were doing before. > The only thing this stuff revolutionises is new ways to not pay people. The camera lessened the need of people to go to plays and pay for tickets to see things in person. Just like records, CDs, and mp3s lessened the need to go to concerts and shows. Technology is always creating and destroying ways to pay people. The ways that people get paid are not suppose to be fixed and unchanging in time.

imiric 3y ago
I agree with everything you said. I would just add two points: - The rate of change that AI forces upon us has never before been experienced. - The scale of these changes is nothing like we've ever seen before. The adoptions of the camera, radio, automobile, TV, etc., didn't happen practically overnight. Society had a good decade+ to prepare for them. Similarly, AI doesn't just change one industry. It fundamentally changes _all_ industries, and brings up some fundamental questions about the meaning of intelligence and our place in the universe. My fear is that we're not prepared for either of these things. We're not even certain how exactly this will affect us, or where this is actually all taking us, but somehow a very small group of people is inevitably forcing this on all of us. Because of this I think that being conservative, and maybe putting some strict regulation on these advancements, might not be such a bad idea.
- mlrtime 3y ago
  Agree with what you are saying as well. But AI is not displacing at the rate of change that is advancing. True, we hear anecdotes about people losing their jobs in HN, that was happening when those other adoptions happened but we didn't know about it happening real-time. Humans still need to adapt and we are slow. If singularity is near [it isn't] we can be afraid, until then we are the limiting factor here. Displacement will happen but growth will happen faster with these new tools
- shrx 3y ago
  Why are you afraid of change?
  - bluefirebrand 3y ago
    Because as I grow older, I find I am less and less equipped to keep up with the rate of change that we are undergoing. It also means a lot of uncertainty for the immediate future. If AI takes over my job, will I still be able to compete in some industry somewhere and provide for myself? I don't want much out of life, but I do want the ability to influence my own personal situation. If we wind up in the UBI-ified, dense urban housing future where AI does all the work and no one owns anything, how much real influence will I have over my life? Will I live out my days in a government issued single bedroom apartment, with a monthly "congratulations for being human" allowance from the government? I don't want that. People say it will free us up to pursue whatever we want, but to me it sounds like the worst cage imaginable. All the free time, and no real freedom to enjoy it with. Because make no mistake. If you live on handouts from your government, you aren't free. So with that as a potential, maybe even likely outcome, why aren't you afraid of change?
    - imbnwa 3y ago
      >Because make no mistake. If you live on handouts from your government, you aren't free. This isn't actually the problem since we need and will continue to need UBI for non-AI related reasons >People say it will free us up to pursue whatever we want, but to me it sounds like the worst cage imaginable. This is where you missed the bit that "pursue whatever we want" will also be limited by AI, and secondary effect of people growing up consuming and enjoying AI productions that tailored to their interest. At best, you'll have a few people commanding Patreons who have some skill, but generally you'd have to find a domain to pursue that isn't already automated. Luddite subcultures will have to develop. But generally you yourself and most others, particularly children of millennials who'll grow up with this stuff progressing in sophistication, might just spend your time watching your video prompts come alive; and who would wanna. do anything else when you can get straight to what you wanna see.
deergomoo 3y ago
> How else do you get influence and inspiration without feeding other people's work into your own brain? Do you know a single artist, writer, or musician who hasn't seen other artists' paintings, read other writers' books, or listened to other musician's music? Ingesting content is the core of how influence, inspiration, and learning work I am a human, alive and sentient. I can be held responsible if my “inspirations” stray into theft. A machine cannot, and it’s increasingly looking like the companies that operate the machines can’t either. I also can’t churn out my inspired works at a rate that displaces potentially everyone who has ever influenced me. > It's made creative pursuits accessible to billions who previously didn't have the skill or time to do them well, or the money to hire others. As a random example, I have friends using ChatGPT to compose creative and personalized poems and notes about each other. Not something they were doing before How on earth is using a machine to spit out a poem a creative pursuit? There’s no more creativity there than watching a movie someone else made. It’s entertaining, yes, but it’s not creativity. > The camera lessened the need of people to go to plays and pay for tickets to see things in person. Just like records, CDs, and mp3s lessened the need to go to concerts and shows This doesn’t hold water. Cinema did not eliminate theatre just as records did not eliminate live music. In fact, both are arguably as big now as they have ever been. The technology here filled a new space, it didn’t threaten to throw everyone out of an existing one.
- l33tman 3y ago
  I can't know if you've actually used these tools, but it requires a pretty high level of creative mind to get them to produce the content you're looking for. Maybe you as a user of an LLM you don't need to be creative in the writing of words for example, but you instead need to be creative in how you control the tools and pick the right outputs, feed it back, copy/paste/cut it, change stuff, extend it.. and the same with the image generators. There's a HUGE amount of creative accessories around them to manipulate and steer the process. There might be less creativity needed with the pen, but it's needed in other ways.
  - jitix 3y ago
    I don’t see the advent of generative art any different than when we moved from paper to photoshop. For those unaware the vast majority of graphic artists start their projects with assets and base images that they themselves don’t create. With generative ai you’re simply going one step further and have another new tool create a more polished version that you can edit to remove extra fingers, etc. It’s simply moving the baseline from 20% done to 60% done, which will result in artists producing even higher fidelity and more detailed art. For example an artist could generate a bunch of scenes using Sora and create a collage of them for a larger piece of art, something that is prohibitively time consuming right now.

imiric 3y ago

I agree with everything you said. I would just add two points: - The rate of change that AI forces upon us has never before been experienced. - The scale of these changes is nothing like we've ever seen before. The adoptions of the camera, radio, automobile, TV, etc., didn't happen practically overnight. Society had a good decade+ to prepare for them. Similarly, AI doesn't just change one industry. It fundamentally changes _all_ industries, and brings up some fundamental questions about the meaning of intelligence and our place in the universe. My fear is that we're not prepared for either of these things. We're not even certain how exactly this will affect us, or where this is actually all taking us, but somehow a very small group of people is inevitably forcing this on all of us. Because of this I think that being conservative, and maybe putting some strict regulation on these advancements, might not be such a bad idea.

mlrtime 3y ago
Agree with what you are saying as well. But AI is not displacing at the rate of change that is advancing. True, we hear anecdotes about people losing their jobs in HN, that was happening when those other adoptions happened but we didn't know about it happening real-time. Humans still need to adapt and we are slow. If singularity is near [it isn't] we can be afraid, until then we are the limiting factor here. Displacement will happen but growth will happen faster with these new tools
shrx 3y ago
Why are you afraid of change?
- bluefirebrand 3y ago
  Because as I grow older, I find I am less and less equipped to keep up with the rate of change that we are undergoing. It also means a lot of uncertainty for the immediate future. If AI takes over my job, will I still be able to compete in some industry somewhere and provide for myself? I don't want much out of life, but I do want the ability to influence my own personal situation. If we wind up in the UBI-ified, dense urban housing future where AI does all the work and no one owns anything, how much real influence will I have over my life? Will I live out my days in a government issued single bedroom apartment, with a monthly "congratulations for being human" allowance from the government? I don't want that. People say it will free us up to pursue whatever we want, but to me it sounds like the worst cage imaginable. All the free time, and no real freedom to enjoy it with. Because make no mistake. If you live on handouts from your government, you aren't free. So with that as a potential, maybe even likely outcome, why aren't you afraid of change?
  - imbnwa 3y ago
    >Because make no mistake. If you live on handouts from your government, you aren't free. This isn't actually the problem since we need and will continue to need UBI for non-AI related reasons >People say it will free us up to pursue whatever we want, but to me it sounds like the worst cage imaginable. This is where you missed the bit that "pursue whatever we want" will also be limited by AI, and secondary effect of people growing up consuming and enjoying AI productions that tailored to their interest. At best, you'll have a few people commanding Patreons who have some skill, but generally you'd have to find a domain to pursue that isn't already automated. Luddite subcultures will have to develop. But generally you yourself and most others, particularly children of millennials who'll grow up with this stuff progressing in sophistication, might just spend your time watching your video prompts come alive; and who would wanna. do anything else when you can get straight to what you wanna see.

deergomoo 3y ago

> How else do you get influence and inspiration without feeding other people's work into your own brain? Do you know a single artist, writer, or musician who hasn't seen other artists' paintings, read other writers' books, or listened to other musician's music? Ingesting content is the core of how influence, inspiration, and learning work I am a human, alive and sentient. I can be held responsible if my “inspirations” stray into theft. A machine cannot, and it’s increasingly looking like the companies that operate the machines can’t either. I also can’t churn out my inspired works at a rate that displaces potentially everyone who has ever influenced me. > It's made creative pursuits accessible to billions who previously didn't have the skill or time to do them well, or the money to hire others. As a random example, I have friends using ChatGPT to compose creative and personalized poems and notes about each other. Not something they were doing before How on earth is using a machine to spit out a poem a creative pursuit? There’s no more creativity there than watching a movie someone else made. It’s entertaining, yes, but it’s not creativity. > The camera lessened the need of people to go to plays and pay for tickets to see things in person. Just like records, CDs, and mp3s lessened the need to go to concerts and shows This doesn’t hold water. Cinema did not eliminate theatre just as records did not eliminate live music. In fact, both are arguably as big now as they have ever been. The technology here filled a new space, it didn’t threaten to throw everyone out of an existing one.

l33tman 3y ago
I can't know if you've actually used these tools, but it requires a pretty high level of creative mind to get them to produce the content you're looking for. Maybe you as a user of an LLM you don't need to be creative in the writing of words for example, but you instead need to be creative in how you control the tools and pick the right outputs, feed it back, copy/paste/cut it, change stuff, extend it.. and the same with the image generators. There's a HUGE amount of creative accessories around them to manipulate and steer the process. There might be less creativity needed with the pen, but it's needed in other ways.
- jitix 3y ago
  I don’t see the advent of generative art any different than when we moved from paper to photoshop. For those unaware the vast majority of graphic artists start their projects with assets and base images that they themselves don’t create. With generative ai you’re simply going one step further and have another new tool create a more polished version that you can edit to remove extra fingers, etc. It’s simply moving the baseline from 20% done to 60% done, which will result in artists producing even higher fidelity and more detailed art. For example an artist could generate a bunch of scenes using Sora and create a collage of them for a larger piece of art, something that is prohibitively time consuming right now.