3 ms·

The author has a weird take on zero based budgeting [0]. To me it seems like a distinction without a difference. I never did try Firefly because at first it was

by zargon 3y ago

The author has a weird take on zero based budgeting [0]. To me it seems like a distinction without a difference. I never did try Firefly because at first it wasn't very mature and then later I found Actual Budget, which is (or at least was) perfect. (I haven't transitioned to the open source version yet, so I'm not sure if they broke it.) [0] https://docs.firefly-iii.org/explanation/firefly-iii/background/zero-based-budgeting/ https://docs.firefly-iii.org/explanation/firefly-iii/backgro...

mdhowle 3y ago
I have been using the self-hosted ActualBudget for ~6 months and found it mostly perfect. The mobile version of the site is not complete but it's at least usable for managing transactions. The only drawback is no user accounts, but you can have multiple budgets. I was originally on YNAB4, and then financier.io for ~2 years.
- igortg 3y ago
  I've being using YNAB4 for about 10yrs now. But I miss a mobile version to report daily expenses. Do you see any major drawback comparing to YNAB4?
  - mdhowle 3y ago
    I haven't encountered any major drawbacks. The reporting is a bit lacking. ActualBudget has simple Net Worth and Cash Flow charts. Other than that, it has all the features of YNAB4 I can recall.
- funOtter 3y ago
  I also switched from YNAB4 to ActualBudget about 6 months ago. I'm hosting it on a Raspberry pi in my network. Overall it's working great!
- hiatus 3y ago
  How do you get transactions into ActualBudget? Do you run a manual import job at a set cadence?
  - mdhowle 3y ago
    There is some experimental work being done with SimpleFIN integration[1] for US banks but I can't comment on how well that works. Personally, I add each transaction manually. It allows me to stay on top of my budget. [1] https://github.com/actualbudget/actual/issues/2272 https://github.com/actualbudget/actual/issues/2272
JC5 3y ago
The difference isn't very big, but I honestly (I wrote that page) believe that the difference is worth pointing out.
- brokenengineer 3y ago
  I struggle to read that page without wanting to ask follow-up questions. I know it's your personal opinion about finance, and I'm not actually expecting you to change your mind from these questions. However, I'd like to understand how you ended up where you are. How'd you somehow end up so burned by zero-based or envelope-based budgeting? FWIW, I've come from a traditional budgeting method and migrated to a zero-based and both can work. > But also keep in mind: it's harder to spend less money with zero-based budgeting. I'd argue the opposite is a problem with traditional budgeting methods: you're budgeting money you don't yet have. Yes, you might get it, but you don't until you have it. More importantly, how? How is it harder to spend less? > It's harder to get a feeling for your financial situation with zero-based budgeting [..] What? With envelope-based budgeting the colloquial jobs that your money has must be defined. You have to acknowledge exactly what you have and what you don't have, because you can't play with imaginary money. If you don't have enough money to put aside for rent next month, you know you don't have that money or you're not willing to spend it. How? > it's especially harder to change anything In my own experience, when it's hard to change your budget with envelope-based budgets it's usually because you're constrained in your money. The exception to this has been financial investments: you can use tools like YNAB for it, but they're not created for forecasting or any of that stuff -- you're here for your here and now. In a way, I think you're absolutely correct that it's harder to change anything, but not because the method is wrong; it's because it addresses the fundamental issue of traditional budgeting and it's difficult and tough to deal with the consequences: you can only budget the money you actually have. You can't make up numbers about what a month usually looks like. If you want to feel safe about next month's rent, the only way is to have next month's rent budgeted. Thus, isn't harder better if harder is actual change as opposed to imaginary? I am left with a sour taste that you not only decide to talk about things like paycheck to paycheck, but also combine it with a conclusion that says: > Use Firefly III. Use GnuCash. Use anything from this list. But skip the zero-based nonsense. I think you'd be better off acknowledging the different audiences more-so than categorising zero-based budgeting as nonsense. I'm not even going to touch the question of recommending someone to use GnuCash as an alternative to zero-based budgeting.

by zargon 3y ago

mdhowle 3y ago

I have been using the self-hosted ActualBudget for ~6 months and found it mostly perfect. The mobile version of the site is not complete but it's at least usable for managing transactions. The only drawback is no user accounts, but you can have multiple budgets. I was originally on YNAB4, and then financier.io for ~2 years.

igortg 3y ago
I've being using YNAB4 for about 10yrs now. But I miss a mobile version to report daily expenses. Do you see any major drawback comparing to YNAB4?
- mdhowle 3y ago
  I haven't encountered any major drawbacks. The reporting is a bit lacking. ActualBudget has simple Net Worth and Cash Flow charts. Other than that, it has all the features of YNAB4 I can recall.
funOtter 3y ago
I also switched from YNAB4 to ActualBudget about 6 months ago. I'm hosting it on a Raspberry pi in my network. Overall it's working great!
hiatus 3y ago
How do you get transactions into ActualBudget? Do you run a manual import job at a set cadence?
- mdhowle 3y ago
  There is some experimental work being done with SimpleFIN integration[1] for US banks but I can't comment on how well that works. Personally, I add each transaction manually. It allows me to stay on top of my budget. [1] https://github.com/actualbudget/actual/issues/2272 https://github.com/actualbudget/actual/issues/2272

JC5 3y ago

The difference isn't very big, but I honestly (I wrote that page) believe that the difference is worth pointing out.

brokenengineer 3y ago
I struggle to read that page without wanting to ask follow-up questions. I know it's your personal opinion about finance, and I'm not actually expecting you to change your mind from these questions. However, I'd like to understand how you ended up where you are. How'd you somehow end up so burned by zero-based or envelope-based budgeting? FWIW, I've come from a traditional budgeting method and migrated to a zero-based and both can work. > But also keep in mind: it's harder to spend less money with zero-based budgeting. I'd argue the opposite is a problem with traditional budgeting methods: you're budgeting money you don't yet have. Yes, you might get it, but you don't until you have it. More importantly, how? How is it harder to spend less? > It's harder to get a feeling for your financial situation with zero-based budgeting [..] What? With envelope-based budgeting the colloquial jobs that your money has must be defined. You have to acknowledge exactly what you have and what you don't have, because you can't play with imaginary money. If you don't have enough money to put aside for rent next month, you know you don't have that money or you're not willing to spend it. How? > it's especially harder to change anything In my own experience, when it's hard to change your budget with envelope-based budgets it's usually because you're constrained in your money. The exception to this has been financial investments: you can use tools like YNAB for it, but they're not created for forecasting or any of that stuff -- you're here for your here and now. In a way, I think you're absolutely correct that it's harder to change anything, but not because the method is wrong; it's because it addresses the fundamental issue of traditional budgeting and it's difficult and tough to deal with the consequences: you can only budget the money you actually have. You can't make up numbers about what a month usually looks like. If you want to feel safe about next month's rent, the only way is to have next month's rent budgeted. Thus, isn't harder better if harder is actual change as opposed to imaginary? I am left with a sour taste that you not only decide to talk about things like paycheck to paycheck, but also combine it with a conclusion that says: > Use Firefly III. Use GnuCash. Use anything from this list. But skip the zero-based nonsense. I think you'd be better off acknowledging the different audiences more-so than categorising zero-based budgeting as nonsense. I'm not even going to touch the question of recommending someone to use GnuCash as an alternative to zero-based budgeting.