23 ms·

As an American dev I can't wait to see tech companies leave the EU and leave it in shambles as the EU realizes it never learnt how to innovate, only legislate a

As an American dev I can't wait to see tech companies leave the EU and leave it in shambles as the EU realizes it never learnt how to innovate, only legislate and rent-seek from our companies. Frankly, the region needs us far more than we need it.

Scoring6931 3y ago
If it wasn't for Turing your job might not have been a thing. If it wasn't for Tim Berners-Lee, we might not have been here having this discussion. Hint: neither is/was American. Just to throw some examples.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- xvector 3y ago
  What modern consumer-facing companies have come out of the EU in the past 20 years, besides Spotify? How is that list looking compared to the US? That's all the evidence you need that the EU has seriously fucked up with regards to encouraging tech innovation. A lack of tech innovation has terrifying implications for the EU long-term, such as reduced QoL, brain drain, economic decline, etc. - all of which are already in progress.
  - cromka 3y ago
    It’s an interesting bias, that people use consumer facing European tech products and don’t even know it. Just have a look: https://media.licdn.com/dms/image/C4E12AQFqW-dnIUTj2w/article-inline_image-shrink_1000_1488/0/1591170579988?e=1713398400&v=beta&t=o0DY5NcgWlNWnMouZ9DrZ4xknJLyYBVDxoJ698um8TU https://media.licdn.com/dms/image/C4E12AQFqW-dnIUTj2w/articl... Majority of educational software is European. That list above is missing Duolingo. A giant undoubtedly. Hey, did you know Gitlab was European, too? Or Skype? Or Waze? Or Booking.com? Or Skyscanner? Or even flightradar? PS. I didn’t limit this to EU only.
    - xvector 3y ago
      When the EU's biggest competitor to Apple, Google, and OpenAI is Spotify and Booking.com, there's a serious problem with the EU. It shows that the region is barely capable of encouraging innovation that will meaningfully advance technological progress, which is the single biggest predictor of quality of life in human history. Yes, the EU might be nicer to work in, more vacation days, less layoffs. Such a view is shortsighted and does not consider how suffocating innovation impacts humanity long-term, because your 15 extra vacation days simply will never measure up to the literal humanity-changing advancements technology provides. In essence, you have improved QoL today but sacrificed it for generations to come, because your region has decided that it's not important to craft regulations that balance entrepreneurial spirit with consumer good. Ask any startup how difficult it is to deal with GDPR, I have literally seen startups give up over this. (Is GDPR good for consumers? Of course. Was it designed with literally any feedback from people interested in starting a business? No.) Perhaps the US has too far on one side, but the EU has clearly gone too far on the other. And the EU can continue to freeload off the US's advancement, but if the EU's current model were to become global, there's precedent that human innovation would grind to a standstill.
0______0 3y ago
What a dim witted argument. Go read a book on macroeconomics.
arlort 3y ago
> Frankly, the region needs us far more than we need it. If that were what companies genuinely felt they'd already have left, but pecunia non olet, even if you have to pay taxes on it Moreover essentially the only relevant systemic differences between the US and Europe in the tech sector are: - pre-existing capital - a better financial system and regulations (of the financial system) in the US (or rather, a combination of quality and size) - better bankruptcy laws Even if one of the big companies left the market that'd just leave space for a (at first) slightly worse product/products to fill the niche. Not exactly "shambles"
tobyhinloopen 3y ago
As an EU dev, yes please.
MrDresden 3y ago
And the US could take a few pages out of the EU's playbook on how to make sure companies, and the state, treat their people as human beings. Frankly the US needs it far more than the EU needs it's tech sector.
acdha 3y ago
That’s true, I would always choose to fly Boeing instead of Airbus. Bosch and Siemens don’t exist, and Mercedes certainly didn’t beat Tesla all-hollow with self-driving technology. These sweeping generalizations are pointless, especially because international finance means a lot of things happen at American companies offices in European countries. Does the fact that you’re using Brotli to view this webpage count for Google or Switzerland? A bumper sticker-level political philosophy probably won’t help there.
- xvector 3y ago
  What modern consumer-facing tech companies have come out of the EU in the past 20 years, besides Spotify? How is that list looking compared to the US? That's all the evidence you need that the EU has seriously fucked up with regards to encouraging tech innovation.
  - acdha 3y ago
    If you’re going to lionize startups as the only thing which matters, you can’t exclude Spotify. And, yes, that list is very uneven because the U.S. financial sector has been very supportive of those but it’s not zero just because you don’t follow it. This is an especially interesting time to discuss it because the current layoff bloodbath has not been evenly distributed and the European side which never flew so high isn’t getting hit as hard by the end of free money, either: https://www.economist.com/business/2023/12/07/europes-technology-startups-are-doing-just-fine https://www.economist.com/business/2023/12/07/europes-techno... The U.S. scene has more companies, of course, but in terms of impact an awful lot of those have been me-toos which haven’t produced durable value.
    - xvector 3y ago
      When the EU's biggest competitor to Apple, Google, and OpenAI is Spotify and Booking.com, there's a serious problem with the EU. It shows that the region is barely capable of encouraging innovation that will meaningfully advance technological progress, which is the single biggest predictor of quality of life in human history. Yes, the EU might be nicer to work in, more vacation days, less layoffs. Such a view is shortsighted and does not consider how suffocating innovation impacts humanity long-term, because your 15 extra vacation days simply will never measure up to the literal humanity-changing advancements technology provides. In essence, you have improved QoL today but sacrificed it for generations to come, because your region has decided that it's not important to craft regulations that balance entrepreneurial spirit with consumer good. Ask any startup how difficult it is to deal with GDPR, I have literally seen startups give up over this. (Is GDPR good for consumers? Of course. Was it designed with literally any feedback from people interested in starting a business? No.) Perhaps the US has too far on one side, but the EU has clearly gone too far on the other. And the EU can continue to freeload off the US's advancement, but if the EU's current model were to become global, there's precedent that human innovation would grind to a standstill.
dns_snek 3y ago
> EU realizes it never learnt how to innovate, only legislate and rent-seek from our companies. That's rich, you ought to look in the mirror. Apple and most of big tech started the "rent seeking and legislation" war by screwing over their users and developers, milking them both for every dime and their approach to so-called "innovation" is surprise - legislation. They've decided to simply ban competition from their platforms, neat!

Scoring6931 3y ago

If it wasn't for Turing your job might not have been a thing. If it wasn't for Tim Berners-Lee, we might not have been here having this discussion. Hint: neither is/was American. Just to throw some examples.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
xvector 3y ago
What modern consumer-facing companies have come out of the EU in the past 20 years, besides Spotify? How is that list looking compared to the US? That's all the evidence you need that the EU has seriously fucked up with regards to encouraging tech innovation. A lack of tech innovation has terrifying implications for the EU long-term, such as reduced QoL, brain drain, economic decline, etc. - all of which are already in progress.
- cromka 3y ago
  It’s an interesting bias, that people use consumer facing European tech products and don’t even know it. Just have a look: https://media.licdn.com/dms/image/C4E12AQFqW-dnIUTj2w/article-inline_image-shrink_1000_1488/0/1591170579988?e=1713398400&v=beta&t=o0DY5NcgWlNWnMouZ9DrZ4xknJLyYBVDxoJ698um8TU https://media.licdn.com/dms/image/C4E12AQFqW-dnIUTj2w/articl... Majority of educational software is European. That list above is missing Duolingo. A giant undoubtedly. Hey, did you know Gitlab was European, too? Or Skype? Or Waze? Or Booking.com? Or Skyscanner? Or even flightradar? PS. I didn’t limit this to EU only.
  - xvector 3y ago
    When the EU's biggest competitor to Apple, Google, and OpenAI is Spotify and Booking.com, there's a serious problem with the EU. It shows that the region is barely capable of encouraging innovation that will meaningfully advance technological progress, which is the single biggest predictor of quality of life in human history. Yes, the EU might be nicer to work in, more vacation days, less layoffs. Such a view is shortsighted and does not consider how suffocating innovation impacts humanity long-term, because your 15 extra vacation days simply will never measure up to the literal humanity-changing advancements technology provides. In essence, you have improved QoL today but sacrificed it for generations to come, because your region has decided that it's not important to craft regulations that balance entrepreneurial spirit with consumer good. Ask any startup how difficult it is to deal with GDPR, I have literally seen startups give up over this. (Is GDPR good for consumers? Of course. Was it designed with literally any feedback from people interested in starting a business? No.) Perhaps the US has too far on one side, but the EU has clearly gone too far on the other. And the EU can continue to freeload off the US's advancement, but if the EU's current model were to become global, there's precedent that human innovation would grind to a standstill.

0______0 3y ago

What a dim witted argument. Go read a book on macroeconomics.

arlort 3y ago

> Frankly, the region needs us far more than we need it. If that were what companies genuinely felt they'd already have left, but pecunia non olet, even if you have to pay taxes on it Moreover essentially the only relevant systemic differences between the US and Europe in the tech sector are: - pre-existing capital - a better financial system and regulations (of the financial system) in the US (or rather, a combination of quality and size) - better bankruptcy laws Even if one of the big companies left the market that'd just leave space for a (at first) slightly worse product/products to fill the niche. Not exactly "shambles"

tobyhinloopen 3y ago

As an EU dev, yes please.

MrDresden 3y ago

And the US could take a few pages out of the EU's playbook on how to make sure companies, and the state, treat their people as human beings. Frankly the US needs it far more than the EU needs it's tech sector.

acdha 3y ago

That’s true, I would always choose to fly Boeing instead of Airbus. Bosch and Siemens don’t exist, and Mercedes certainly didn’t beat Tesla all-hollow with self-driving technology. These sweeping generalizations are pointless, especially because international finance means a lot of things happen at American companies offices in European countries. Does the fact that you’re using Brotli to view this webpage count for Google or Switzerland? A bumper sticker-level political philosophy probably won’t help there.

xvector 3y ago
What modern consumer-facing tech companies have come out of the EU in the past 20 years, besides Spotify? How is that list looking compared to the US? That's all the evidence you need that the EU has seriously fucked up with regards to encouraging tech innovation.
- acdha 3y ago
  If you’re going to lionize startups as the only thing which matters, you can’t exclude Spotify. And, yes, that list is very uneven because the U.S. financial sector has been very supportive of those but it’s not zero just because you don’t follow it. This is an especially interesting time to discuss it because the current layoff bloodbath has not been evenly distributed and the European side which never flew so high isn’t getting hit as hard by the end of free money, either: https://www.economist.com/business/2023/12/07/europes-technology-startups-are-doing-just-fine https://www.economist.com/business/2023/12/07/europes-techno... The U.S. scene has more companies, of course, but in terms of impact an awful lot of those have been me-toos which haven’t produced durable value.
  - xvector 3y ago
    When the EU's biggest competitor to Apple, Google, and OpenAI is Spotify and Booking.com, there's a serious problem with the EU. It shows that the region is barely capable of encouraging innovation that will meaningfully advance technological progress, which is the single biggest predictor of quality of life in human history. Yes, the EU might be nicer to work in, more vacation days, less layoffs. Such a view is shortsighted and does not consider how suffocating innovation impacts humanity long-term, because your 15 extra vacation days simply will never measure up to the literal humanity-changing advancements technology provides. In essence, you have improved QoL today but sacrificed it for generations to come, because your region has decided that it's not important to craft regulations that balance entrepreneurial spirit with consumer good. Ask any startup how difficult it is to deal with GDPR, I have literally seen startups give up over this. (Is GDPR good for consumers? Of course. Was it designed with literally any feedback from people interested in starting a business? No.) Perhaps the US has too far on one side, but the EU has clearly gone too far on the other. And the EU can continue to freeload off the US's advancement, but if the EU's current model were to become global, there's precedent that human innovation would grind to a standstill.

dns_snek 3y ago

> EU realizes it never learnt how to innovate, only legislate and rent-seek from our companies. That's rich, you ought to look in the mirror. Apple and most of big tech started the "rent seeking and legislation" war by screwing over their users and developers, milking them both for every dime and their approach to so-called "innovation" is surprise - legislation. They've decided to simply ban competition from their platforms, neat!