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Also contributing to the problem is the marketing departments in every company wanting their package to be a unique color and shape. Before 'recycling' glass mi

by brikym 3y ago

Also contributing to the problem is the marketing departments in every company wanting their package to be a unique color and shape. Before 'recycling' glass milk bottles and beer bottles would be a standard size and be bought back by the shop. This is what we need to return to but the corporations are always peddling greenwash nonsense about how eco-friendly their (PFAS coated) cardboard packaging is or how you don't need to feel bad because 5% of the bottle is from recycled sources.

wkat4242 3y ago
We used to have a pretty great system in the Netherlands with reusable PET bottles for soft drinks. These were much thicker than the current types (so thick you couldn't crush them), and they'd be returned for a fee, washed and refilled. Unfortunately this system was dumped in favour of the usual single use "recyclable" bottles. I still lament their disappearance :( the current bottles (the same as everywhere else) are a huge step back for reuse.
- XorNot 3y ago
  I am somewhat suspicious as to whether this works out as being environmentally friendlier - i.e. the dishwasher paradox (in short: a dishwasher makes things easier, and uses less power and water and detergent to wash dishes then doing it by hand - people mistake struggle for effectiveness). Because at a large scale, you've got a couple of parameters I can think of: 1. the mean lifetime before a bottle fails / is removed from service 2. the failure mode of the bottle (i.e. if it shatters, does it go to landfill or do you end up with pieces in the environment?) 3. the amount of water and detergents needed to wash them properly, given the uncontrolled nature of the environment they come from, and the amount of power. 4. revalidating that the bottle is in fact clean - again - due to the uncontrolled nature of the environment they come from 5. the extra shipping involved in moving the bottles around for reuse. It's easily possible they reusable bottles don't actually work out being lower resource use then single-use disposables with controlled disposal (i.e. stabilized landfill). Cleaning things when you don't know where they've been is fraught and difficult. Basically it can easily be possible that reusing bottles you already have in your possession and wash yourself is better, it's not necessarily true that it works at a larger scale.
  - wkat4242 3y ago
    I'm not sure what the reason behind it was, but I doubt it was environmental. We did this for 15 years or so (previous to that there were reusable glass bottles) so I doubt it was really unfeasible. If it were it would really have been stopped much earlier. I think it's more the industry wanted to bring things in line with the rest of Europe, or that it was cheaper, rather than because it was better for the environment.

by brikym 3y ago

wkat4242 3y ago

We used to have a pretty great system in the Netherlands with reusable PET bottles for soft drinks. These were much thicker than the current types (so thick you couldn't crush them), and they'd be returned for a fee, washed and refilled. Unfortunately this system was dumped in favour of the usual single use "recyclable" bottles. I still lament their disappearance :( the current bottles (the same as everywhere else) are a huge step back for reuse.

XorNot 3y ago
I am somewhat suspicious as to whether this works out as being environmentally friendlier - i.e. the dishwasher paradox (in short: a dishwasher makes things easier, and uses less power and water and detergent to wash dishes then doing it by hand - people mistake struggle for effectiveness). Because at a large scale, you've got a couple of parameters I can think of: 1. the mean lifetime before a bottle fails / is removed from service 2. the failure mode of the bottle (i.e. if it shatters, does it go to landfill or do you end up with pieces in the environment?) 3. the amount of water and detergents needed to wash them properly, given the uncontrolled nature of the environment they come from, and the amount of power. 4. revalidating that the bottle is in fact clean - again - due to the uncontrolled nature of the environment they come from 5. the extra shipping involved in moving the bottles around for reuse. It's easily possible they reusable bottles don't actually work out being lower resource use then single-use disposables with controlled disposal (i.e. stabilized landfill). Cleaning things when you don't know where they've been is fraught and difficult. Basically it can easily be possible that reusing bottles you already have in your possession and wash yourself is better, it's not necessarily true that it works at a larger scale.
- wkat4242 3y ago
  I'm not sure what the reason behind it was, but I doubt it was environmental. We did this for 15 years or so (previous to that there were reusable glass bottles) so I doubt it was really unfeasible. If it were it would really have been stopped much earlier. I think it's more the industry wanted to bring things in line with the rest of Europe, or that it was cheaper, rather than because it was better for the environment.