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Looks like Apple is going to fix dark mode in iOS 18 by dropping support for PWAs altogether in my part of the world. https://www.macrumors.com/2024/02/08/ios-

Looks like Apple is going to fix dark mode in iOS 18 by dropping support for PWAs altogether in my part of the world. https://www.macrumors.com/2024/02/08/ios-17-4-nerfs-web-apps-in-the-eu/ https://www.macrumors.com/2024/02/08/ios-17-4-nerfs-web-apps...

hmottestad 3y ago
Looks like Apple is just going to blame the EU. They are officially pulling PWA support on iOS in Europe. So fuck me I guess :( https://9to5mac.com/2024/02/15/ios-17-4-web-apps-european-union/ https://9to5mac.com/2024/02/15/ios-17-4-web-apps-european-un...
- CharlesW 3y ago
  You seem to be conflating "PWA" with the Safari + Home Screen integration that allowed users to add a web[site|app] (PWA or not) to the iOS Home Screen. Apple had to remove this to comply with the DMA. It's now the responsibility of alternative browser engine vendors to integrate with Shortcuts so that you can add PWAs and other web[sites|apps] to the Home Screen using your browser engine of choice. The additional benefit of this is that different PWAs can use different browser engines.
  - DANmode 3y ago
    > Apple had to remove this to comply with the DMA. This has yet to be made clear to me. Could you attempt to convince us?
    - CharlesW 3y ago
      The DMA requires that Apple not favor Safari. A direct integration between Safari and Home Screen favors Safari, and so is not allowed under the DMA.
      - DANmode 3y ago
        So...they're tearing out all OS features that favor Safari? or just the features they're motivated not to offer a path to using for other publishers? (Like, webapp support)
        hmottestad 3y ago
        From Apples own documentation I get the feeling that someone discovered that there was no easy way to allow their PWA support to work with other browser engines. Due to a lack of priority, running out of time and general malicious compliance they just nuked PWAs instead of fixing them. I wonder if the DMA contains some sort of requirement that features not be removed. To force Apple to make PWAs interoperable with other browser engines instead of just nuking them.
        turquoisevar 3y ago
        Pretty much. You emphasized “all” to imply there are so many, but honestly I can’t think of much beyond what they’re already mitigating to comply with the DMA. You’ll get a browser selection screen now, other engines will be allowed, default browser choice gets further expanded in terms of implementation so it essentially ensures you never have to touch Safari. The only thing that is being torn out is PWA installation on Home Screen because it would be yet another significant architectural change that comes with some significant engineering effort during a time of crunch, when the install rate of PWAs is abysmal as it is, even on other OSs. Seems fair to me.
        DANmode 3y ago
        Siri won't learn from Safari activity, anymore? and a dozen other similar questions...
        turquoisevar 3y ago
        > Siri won't learn from Safari activity, anymore? Can you clarify what you mean by this? If Siri would be the one benefiting (which is what you seem to be saying?) then it wouldn’t give Safari an unfair advantage. No virtual assistants have been designated as gatekeepers under the DMA so preferential treatment of Siri would still be allowed. That said, to my knowledge Siri doesn’t “learn” from Safari in the sense that it improves or trains on Safari user data. Instead Safari, and all other apps, including third party apps, can provide information to Siri to be shown during search as well as providing shortcuts so the app can be controlled via Siri. Users have control over this to a degree so they can exclude information from certain apps. Alternative voice assistants offer similar APIs to receive information and support voice commands for third party services. > and a dozen other similar questions... I’m all ears.
  - SirMaster 3y ago
    What are you talking about? With iOS 17.4 in the EU, you can no longer make a web app (PWA) that uses a full screen window with no browser ui controls. No longer use local storage for the web app's data, and no longer send push notifications and show badges on the home screen icon for web apps. Third party browsers can't add this functionality back. How do you expect them to make push notifications work with PWAs?
    - CharlesW 3y ago
      > With iOS 17.4 in the EU, you can no longer make a web app (PWA) that uses a full screen window with no browser ui controls. Are you sure? Go to https://sindresorhus.com/screenfull/ https://sindresorhus.com/screenfull/, tap "Request", and you should see a full-screen website. Any [website|webapp|PWA] can do this with Safari. (Screenshot: https://imgur.com/a/CTWFPol https://imgur.com/a/CTWFPol) Third-party browsers using their own browser engines can do whatever they like. > How do you expect them to make push notifications work with PWAs? Third-party browsers using their own browser engine will have to create their own support for web notifications, just as Apple does for Safari. Presumably, they'll leverage the same infrastructure they use on non-iOS platforms.
      - SirMaster 3y ago
        I’m not in the EU so I can’t test it. But those that are are all claiming that all their PWAs are no longer full screen, lost all their local storage, and push notifications stopped working.
      - hmottestad 3y ago
        That's good. The Fullscreen API isn't exactly the same as a PWA, but it might go a long way to make my PWAs feel a bit more native again. I see that the support for the Fullscreen API isn't available in iOS 17.3 but will be available once 17.4 lands. "Added support for the Fullscreen API on iOS. (118083593)" https://developer.apple.com/documentation/safari-release-notes/safari-17_4-release-notes https://developer.apple.com/documentation/safari-release-not...
        3y ago
  - hmottestad 3y ago
    Using shortcuts might be a solution in the future. Would be much better if Apple updated their PWA support so that users could select a browser engine instead.
osrec 3y ago
That is really terrible. I don't like the closed nature of Apple's practices anyway, but the way in which they are stifling PWAs is truly abhorrent. I do feel they'll lose this battle eventually, even if it takes a few years. Cross platform apps without a required compile step or walled garden are almost certainly the end state I expect we'll reach within the next decade (probably sooner).
- DANmode 3y ago
  Keep speaking up, and making this issue clear for others.
jmull 3y ago
It’s just a beta, though, right now… We don’t know if this is getting released or not yet.
- sccxy 3y ago
  Apple confirmed that there are no more full screen web apps. Just bookmarks. > EU users will be able to continue accessing websites directly from their Home Screen through a bookmark with minimal impact to their functionality.
  - jmull 3y ago
    Well that just sucks.

hmottestad 3y ago

Looks like Apple is just going to blame the EU. They are officially pulling PWA support on iOS in Europe. So fuck me I guess :( https://9to5mac.com/2024/02/15/ios-17-4-web-apps-european-union/ https://9to5mac.com/2024/02/15/ios-17-4-web-apps-european-un...

CharlesW 3y ago
You seem to be conflating "PWA" with the Safari + Home Screen integration that allowed users to add a web[site|app] (PWA or not) to the iOS Home Screen. Apple had to remove this to comply with the DMA. It's now the responsibility of alternative browser engine vendors to integrate with Shortcuts so that you can add PWAs and other web[sites|apps] to the Home Screen using your browser engine of choice. The additional benefit of this is that different PWAs can use different browser engines.
- DANmode 3y ago
  > Apple had to remove this to comply with the DMA. This has yet to be made clear to me. Could you attempt to convince us?
  - CharlesW 3y ago
    The DMA requires that Apple not favor Safari. A direct integration between Safari and Home Screen favors Safari, and so is not allowed under the DMA.
    - DANmode 3y ago
      So...they're tearing out all OS features that favor Safari? or just the features they're motivated not to offer a path to using for other publishers? (Like, webapp support)
      - hmottestad 3y ago
        From Apples own documentation I get the feeling that someone discovered that there was no easy way to allow their PWA support to work with other browser engines. Due to a lack of priority, running out of time and general malicious compliance they just nuked PWAs instead of fixing them. I wonder if the DMA contains some sort of requirement that features not be removed. To force Apple to make PWAs interoperable with other browser engines instead of just nuking them.
      - turquoisevar 3y ago
        Pretty much. You emphasized “all” to imply there are so many, but honestly I can’t think of much beyond what they’re already mitigating to comply with the DMA. You’ll get a browser selection screen now, other engines will be allowed, default browser choice gets further expanded in terms of implementation so it essentially ensures you never have to touch Safari. The only thing that is being torn out is PWA installation on Home Screen because it would be yet another significant architectural change that comes with some significant engineering effort during a time of crunch, when the install rate of PWAs is abysmal as it is, even on other OSs. Seems fair to me.
        DANmode 3y ago
        Siri won't learn from Safari activity, anymore? and a dozen other similar questions...
        turquoisevar 3y ago
        > Siri won't learn from Safari activity, anymore? Can you clarify what you mean by this? If Siri would be the one benefiting (which is what you seem to be saying?) then it wouldn’t give Safari an unfair advantage. No virtual assistants have been designated as gatekeepers under the DMA so preferential treatment of Siri would still be allowed. That said, to my knowledge Siri doesn’t “learn” from Safari in the sense that it improves or trains on Safari user data. Instead Safari, and all other apps, including third party apps, can provide information to Siri to be shown during search as well as providing shortcuts so the app can be controlled via Siri. Users have control over this to a degree so they can exclude information from certain apps. Alternative voice assistants offer similar APIs to receive information and support voice commands for third party services. > and a dozen other similar questions... I’m all ears.
- SirMaster 3y ago
  What are you talking about? With iOS 17.4 in the EU, you can no longer make a web app (PWA) that uses a full screen window with no browser ui controls. No longer use local storage for the web app's data, and no longer send push notifications and show badges on the home screen icon for web apps. Third party browsers can't add this functionality back. How do you expect them to make push notifications work with PWAs?
  - CharlesW 3y ago
    > With iOS 17.4 in the EU, you can no longer make a web app (PWA) that uses a full screen window with no browser ui controls. Are you sure? Go to https://sindresorhus.com/screenfull/ https://sindresorhus.com/screenfull/, tap "Request", and you should see a full-screen website. Any [website|webapp|PWA] can do this with Safari. (Screenshot: https://imgur.com/a/CTWFPol https://imgur.com/a/CTWFPol) Third-party browsers using their own browser engines can do whatever they like. > How do you expect them to make push notifications work with PWAs? Third-party browsers using their own browser engine will have to create their own support for web notifications, just as Apple does for Safari. Presumably, they'll leverage the same infrastructure they use on non-iOS platforms.
    - SirMaster 3y ago
      I’m not in the EU so I can’t test it. But those that are are all claiming that all their PWAs are no longer full screen, lost all their local storage, and push notifications stopped working.
    - hmottestad 3y ago
      That's good. The Fullscreen API isn't exactly the same as a PWA, but it might go a long way to make my PWAs feel a bit more native again. I see that the support for the Fullscreen API isn't available in iOS 17.3 but will be available once 17.4 lands. "Added support for the Fullscreen API on iOS. (118083593)" https://developer.apple.com/documentation/safari-release-notes/safari-17_4-release-notes https://developer.apple.com/documentation/safari-release-not...
      - 3y ago
- hmottestad 3y ago
  Using shortcuts might be a solution in the future. Would be much better if Apple updated their PWA support so that users could select a browser engine instead.

osrec 3y ago

That is really terrible. I don't like the closed nature of Apple's practices anyway, but the way in which they are stifling PWAs is truly abhorrent. I do feel they'll lose this battle eventually, even if it takes a few years. Cross platform apps without a required compile step or walled garden are almost certainly the end state I expect we'll reach within the next decade (probably sooner).

DANmode 3y ago
Keep speaking up, and making this issue clear for others.

jmull 3y ago

It’s just a beta, though, right now… We don’t know if this is getting released or not yet.

sccxy 3y ago
Apple confirmed that there are no more full screen web apps. Just bookmarks. > EU users will be able to continue accessing websites directly from their Home Screen through a bookmark with minimal impact to their functionality.
- jmull 3y ago
  Well that just sucks.