4 ms·

I love developing PWAs because I can quickly and easily make an app for myself and my family that works without having to provision their devices or pay a dev l

I love developing PWAs because I can quickly and easily make an app for myself and my family that works without having to provision their devices or pay a dev license to Apple. I also use it at work for internal apps. It’s great for all those things. It’s very obvious to me that I’m a second priority for Apple. Dark mode breaking in iOS 17 and still broken 5 months later. Updating the app is tricky, and making users update is even trickier. Haven’t even bothered to try push notifications. One pro though is that when my brother wanted to use a PWA I had developed it worked flawlessly on his Android phone. Cross platform support is a big pro in my opinion. Maybe Apple will fix dark mode with iOS 18, let’s hope they also fix it when using guided access (which was buggy in iOS 16).

hmottestad 3y ago
Looks like Apple is going to fix dark mode in iOS 18 by dropping support for PWAs altogether in my part of the world. https://www.macrumors.com/2024/02/08/ios-17-4-nerfs-web-apps-in-the-eu/ https://www.macrumors.com/2024/02/08/ios-17-4-nerfs-web-apps...
- hmottestad 3y ago
  Looks like Apple is just going to blame the EU. They are officially pulling PWA support on iOS in Europe. So fuck me I guess :( https://9to5mac.com/2024/02/15/ios-17-4-web-apps-european-union/ https://9to5mac.com/2024/02/15/ios-17-4-web-apps-european-un...
  - CharlesW 3y ago
    You seem to be conflating "PWA" with the Safari + Home Screen integration that allowed users to add a web[site|app] (PWA or not) to the iOS Home Screen. Apple had to remove this to comply with the DMA. It's now the responsibility of alternative browser engine vendors to integrate with Shortcuts so that you can add PWAs and other web[sites|apps] to the Home Screen using your browser engine of choice. The additional benefit of this is that different PWAs can use different browser engines.
    - DANmode 3y ago
      > Apple had to remove this to comply with the DMA. This has yet to be made clear to me. Could you attempt to convince us?
      - CharlesW 3y ago
        The DMA requires that Apple not favor Safari. A direct integration between Safari and Home Screen favors Safari, and so is not allowed under the DMA.
        DANmode 3y ago
        So...they're tearing out all OS features that favor Safari? or just the features they're motivated not to offer a path to using for other publishers? (Like, webapp support)
        hmottestad 3y ago
        From Apples own documentation I get the feeling that someone discovered that there was no easy way to allow their PWA support to work with other browser engines. Due to a lack of priority, running out of time and general malicious compliance they just nuked PWAs instead of fixing them. I wonder if the DMA contains some sort of requirement that features not be removed. To force Apple to make PWAs interoperable with other browser engines instead of just nuking them.
        turquoisevar 3y ago
        Pretty much. You emphasized “all” to imply there are so many, but honestly I can’t think of much beyond what they’re already mitigating to comply with the DMA. You’ll get a browser selection screen now, other engines will be allowed, default browser choice gets further expanded in terms of implementation so it essentially ensures you never have to touch Safari. The only thing that is being torn out is PWA installation on Home Screen because it would be yet another significant architectural change that comes with some significant engineering effort during a time of crunch, when the install rate of PWAs is abysmal as it is, even on other OSs. Seems fair to me.
- osrec 3y ago
  That is really terrible. I don't like the closed nature of Apple's practices anyway, but the way in which they are stifling PWAs is truly abhorrent. I do feel they'll lose this battle eventually, even if it takes a few years. Cross platform apps without a required compile step or walled garden are almost certainly the end state I expect we'll reach within the next decade (probably sooner).
  - DANmode 3y ago
    Keep speaking up, and making this issue clear for others.
- jmull 3y ago
  It’s just a beta, though, right now… We don’t know if this is getting released or not yet.
  - sccxy 3y ago
    Apple confirmed that there are no more full screen web apps. Just bookmarks. > EU users will be able to continue accessing websites directly from their Home Screen through a bookmark with minimal impact to their functionality.
    - jmull 3y ago
      Well that just sucks.
freedomben 3y ago
> I can quickly and easily make an app for myself and my family that works without having to provision their devices or pay a dev license to Apple. I also use it at work for internal apps. This is exactly why they don't want it. Some will say it's because those are Apple's users and Apple wants to ensure a great user experience and doesn't want unapproved things running on their devices, and others will say it's because it skips Apple's 30% take and their gatekeeping process. My opinion is that both are true, and conveniently both are achieved the same way: by making PWAs enough of an annoyance to both developers and users that they will voluntarily steer away from them. Classic game theory
- MilaM 3y ago
  They would probably ban browsers altogether from iOS, if they could get away with it. Fortunately we are not there yet.
  - DANmode 3y ago
    > doesn't want unapproved things running on their devices > ban web browsers and this is the point. Stop playing games. Allow users to access and easily use the open web with the internet device they bought from you. Full stop.
  - elevatedastalt 3y ago
    I often say that the only reason email is in the form it is today is because it happened before corporate interests took over communication. If it had been invented today you could only iMessage other iDevice holders. Maybe you would also have had another for-profit middleware company just to deliver messages between Apple and Android devices. Something like a telephone exchange.
    - freedomben 3y ago
      In one of the movies about Steve Jobs, he actually does want to make email proprietary and to only be able to send and receive emails on Macs. There was also talk (involving Bill Gates IIRC) about having an electronic stamp (basically a charge for email). I very much agree, if it were invented today there's no way it would be an open standard. It almost wasn't even back then.

hmottestad 3y ago

Looks like Apple is going to fix dark mode in iOS 18 by dropping support for PWAs altogether in my part of the world. https://www.macrumors.com/2024/02/08/ios-17-4-nerfs-web-apps-in-the-eu/ https://www.macrumors.com/2024/02/08/ios-17-4-nerfs-web-apps...

hmottestad 3y ago
Looks like Apple is just going to blame the EU. They are officially pulling PWA support on iOS in Europe. So fuck me I guess :( https://9to5mac.com/2024/02/15/ios-17-4-web-apps-european-union/ https://9to5mac.com/2024/02/15/ios-17-4-web-apps-european-un...
- CharlesW 3y ago
  You seem to be conflating "PWA" with the Safari + Home Screen integration that allowed users to add a web[site|app] (PWA or not) to the iOS Home Screen. Apple had to remove this to comply with the DMA. It's now the responsibility of alternative browser engine vendors to integrate with Shortcuts so that you can add PWAs and other web[sites|apps] to the Home Screen using your browser engine of choice. The additional benefit of this is that different PWAs can use different browser engines.
  - DANmode 3y ago
    > Apple had to remove this to comply with the DMA. This has yet to be made clear to me. Could you attempt to convince us?
    - CharlesW 3y ago
      The DMA requires that Apple not favor Safari. A direct integration between Safari and Home Screen favors Safari, and so is not allowed under the DMA.
      - DANmode 3y ago
        So...they're tearing out all OS features that favor Safari? or just the features they're motivated not to offer a path to using for other publishers? (Like, webapp support)
        hmottestad 3y ago
        From Apples own documentation I get the feeling that someone discovered that there was no easy way to allow their PWA support to work with other browser engines. Due to a lack of priority, running out of time and general malicious compliance they just nuked PWAs instead of fixing them. I wonder if the DMA contains some sort of requirement that features not be removed. To force Apple to make PWAs interoperable with other browser engines instead of just nuking them.
        turquoisevar 3y ago
        Pretty much. You emphasized “all” to imply there are so many, but honestly I can’t think of much beyond what they’re already mitigating to comply with the DMA. You’ll get a browser selection screen now, other engines will be allowed, default browser choice gets further expanded in terms of implementation so it essentially ensures you never have to touch Safari. The only thing that is being torn out is PWA installation on Home Screen because it would be yet another significant architectural change that comes with some significant engineering effort during a time of crunch, when the install rate of PWAs is abysmal as it is, even on other OSs. Seems fair to me.
osrec 3y ago
That is really terrible. I don't like the closed nature of Apple's practices anyway, but the way in which they are stifling PWAs is truly abhorrent. I do feel they'll lose this battle eventually, even if it takes a few years. Cross platform apps without a required compile step or walled garden are almost certainly the end state I expect we'll reach within the next decade (probably sooner).
- DANmode 3y ago
  Keep speaking up, and making this issue clear for others.
jmull 3y ago
It’s just a beta, though, right now… We don’t know if this is getting released or not yet.
- sccxy 3y ago
  Apple confirmed that there are no more full screen web apps. Just bookmarks. > EU users will be able to continue accessing websites directly from their Home Screen through a bookmark with minimal impact to their functionality.
  - jmull 3y ago
    Well that just sucks.

freedomben 3y ago

> I can quickly and easily make an app for myself and my family that works without having to provision their devices or pay a dev license to Apple. I also use it at work for internal apps. This is exactly why they don't want it. Some will say it's because those are Apple's users and Apple wants to ensure a great user experience and doesn't want unapproved things running on their devices, and others will say it's because it skips Apple's 30% take and their gatekeeping process. My opinion is that both are true, and conveniently both are achieved the same way: by making PWAs enough of an annoyance to both developers and users that they will voluntarily steer away from them. Classic game theory

MilaM 3y ago
They would probably ban browsers altogether from iOS, if they could get away with it. Fortunately we are not there yet.
- DANmode 3y ago
  > doesn't want unapproved things running on their devices > ban web browsers and this is the point. Stop playing games. Allow users to access and easily use the open web with the internet device they bought from you. Full stop.
- elevatedastalt 3y ago
  I often say that the only reason email is in the form it is today is because it happened before corporate interests took over communication. If it had been invented today you could only iMessage other iDevice holders. Maybe you would also have had another for-profit middleware company just to deliver messages between Apple and Android devices. Something like a telephone exchange.
  - freedomben 3y ago
    In one of the movies about Steve Jobs, he actually does want to make email proprietary and to only be able to send and receive emails on Macs. There was also talk (involving Bill Gates IIRC) about having an electronic stamp (basically a charge for email). I very much agree, if it were invented today there's no way it would be an open standard. It almost wasn't even back then.