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The fact that Apple is still using a difference of 256GB storage to jump the price $200 is really funny to me. This is already a wildly premium device, but they

by causal 3y ago

The fact that Apple is still using a difference of 256GB storage to jump the price $200 is really funny to me. This is already a wildly premium device, but they just can't resist trying to scrape a little bit more.

paxys 3y ago
Did the $1000 Mac Pro stand and $700 wheels not make that clear already?
jfoster 3y ago
They also skipped headphones or bone conduction on it just to sell more Airpods.
- frankus 3y ago
  By all accounts the built-in speakers are amazing, but tbf not usable if you need privacy or to not annoy people sitting next to you.
- jherskovic 3y ago
  OP here. What the sibling comment said. The built-in speakers are fantastic, and like many other Apple enthusiasts I own Airpods Pro already as well if I need isolation.
- pwthornton 3y ago
  You do not want a VR headset that requires headphones to operate. That's one more set of batteries to charge. It's one more thing to adjust when switching between users. The Quest is the same as the AVP. Both have surprisingly good audio. The AVP's built-in audio does a great job. You need headphones if you want privacy, first and foremost. Certain headphones will also enable spatial audio and stuff like that. But Apple's audio approach here is very sound. It's nothing like the huge upcharge for more storage.
- zie 3y ago
  I'd argue not to sell more AirPods, I mean sure it's a great extra bonus, but what is the other option you would prefer? that they cover the ears completely like big studio headphones? That they give you a pair of AirPods? Or that they make tethered AirPods? Or Bone Conduction, which means audio quality typically plummets and complicates how the device rests on the cheekbones. All of those are various compromises that also suck for various reasons. What about people with hearing issues? Most of these alternatives are terrible for people that wear hearing aids.
  - jfoster 3y ago
    Valid points until you consider that they went with wearing speakers on your head. Anything detachable or able to be disabled would've been better. It's ridiculous to put speakers on a headset.
    - zie 3y ago
      You can disable the speaker output in the AVP, I don't know why you think you can't.
      - jfoster 3y ago
        Yes, but the point is that they didn't ship it with anything for the wearer to hear audio without disturbing those around. That aspect of the product makes no sense.
jsheard 3y ago
Their storage markups only get more obscene with retail SSD prices continuing to crash. $800 to upgrade from 256GB to 2TB? A fast 2TB NVMe drive can be had for ~$130.
- paxys 3y ago
  > A fast 2TB NVMe drive can be had for ~$130 Not if the drive is soldered to the motherboard..
  - jsheard 3y ago
    With thin laptops you can maybe justify that as a necessary compromise for the form factor, but there's no good reason the Mac Studio shouldn't have a hatch on the bottom with two or three M.2 2280 slots inside. You can put your own PCIe SSDs in the Mac Pro, but that's so wildly marked up compared to an equivalently specced Mac Studio that it probably cancels out any savings.
    - Dalewyn 3y ago
      >there's no good reason There is: Not wanting to support end-user modified products. Apple is never shorthanded on white knights, but more generally I can see why companies might opt to lock out customer modifications under practical pretexts.
      - jsheard 3y ago
        That's their prerogative but I'm not spending thousands of dollars to be treated like a child who can't operate a screwdriver. Hell, I'm sure they could make it a tool-less operation if they wanted to.
    - eurleif 3y ago
      A PCIe/NVME adapter costs $10 on Amazon.
      - 3y ago
ildjarn 3y ago
If they are not consistent about this then more people will start asking questions about iPhone storage tiers.
- organsnyder 3y ago
  Why offer different storage SKUs at all? Just include the larger amount and bump the price by $30 or whatever.
  - sircastor 3y ago
    I assumed it was a yield issue - because everything is on package now
    - helf 3y ago
      [dead]
    - jsheard 3y ago
      The M-series SOCs have the RAM on the package but the NAND flash is still separate, same as ever.
AmVess 3y ago
It is absurd that Apple is still charging laughable amounts of money for tiny, inexpensive components. It was somewhat justifiable before when their products were simply better than anything else. Now, everyone else has caught up on quality, and charge vastly less. Even worse, Apple no longer innovates and simply doesn't care about making things that work. For example, I bought an OLED Windows laptop that was nearly $2000 less than an identically equipped Apple device. Side by side, the Windows unit has better screen and at least equivalent chassis, keyboard, sound, and it has a better touchpad. I have an iphone, and its primary purpose after being a phone is nav in my cars. 75% failure rate the last 4 trips I tried to use it for. Failure as in black screen. This is on top of Apple's increasingly useless nav that has tried to take me out into the boonies more times than I can count. Eventually, people are going to tire of being insulted with high prices and subpar products and switch. I'm already there. The days of me paying to fuel Tim Cook's yacht are over. Apple's headset is so poorly done that it is clear there is deep rot at the top of Apple. When I first saw that absurd front screen, I physically laughed out loud. How anyone at Apple let that through to final product is beyond me. Anyone who brought that crap to Jobs would have been fired on the spot.
- samatman 3y ago
  > Now, everyone else has caught up on quality, and charge vastly less. This is evidently not true for the Vision widget, which is the topic at hand. The hardware is in a league of its own. I would argue this is also true of the Watch line. I decline to discuss the laptop question, and for phones, sure, if you are ok with paying Apple prices for an Android, you can get one of comparable quality for the same amount of money. Just not for less.
  - causal 3y ago
    Yeah and I've yet to see a laptop that comes close to a MBP either. Phone hardware isn't really any better than Samsung though IMO.
raydev 3y ago
> The fact that Apple is still using a difference of 256GB storage to jump the price $200 is really funny to me I've never understood this common opinion. The cost of materials is not a good representation of the manufacturing process, especially since the entire board is built as a unit and not a set of interchangable components. Have people actually run the numbers on the costs of manufacturing the different variations or are they just comparing against the SSDs they can find on Amazon?

by causal 3y ago

paxys 3y ago

Did the $1000 Mac Pro stand and $700 wheels not make that clear already?

jfoster 3y ago

They also skipped headphones or bone conduction on it just to sell more Airpods.

frankus 3y ago
By all accounts the built-in speakers are amazing, but tbf not usable if you need privacy or to not annoy people sitting next to you.
jherskovic 3y ago
OP here. What the sibling comment said. The built-in speakers are fantastic, and like many other Apple enthusiasts I own Airpods Pro already as well if I need isolation.
pwthornton 3y ago
You do not want a VR headset that requires headphones to operate. That's one more set of batteries to charge. It's one more thing to adjust when switching between users. The Quest is the same as the AVP. Both have surprisingly good audio. The AVP's built-in audio does a great job. You need headphones if you want privacy, first and foremost. Certain headphones will also enable spatial audio and stuff like that. But Apple's audio approach here is very sound. It's nothing like the huge upcharge for more storage.
zie 3y ago
I'd argue not to sell more AirPods, I mean sure it's a great extra bonus, but what is the other option you would prefer? that they cover the ears completely like big studio headphones? That they give you a pair of AirPods? Or that they make tethered AirPods? Or Bone Conduction, which means audio quality typically plummets and complicates how the device rests on the cheekbones. All of those are various compromises that also suck for various reasons. What about people with hearing issues? Most of these alternatives are terrible for people that wear hearing aids.
- jfoster 3y ago
  Valid points until you consider that they went with wearing speakers on your head. Anything detachable or able to be disabled would've been better. It's ridiculous to put speakers on a headset.
  - zie 3y ago
    You can disable the speaker output in the AVP, I don't know why you think you can't.
    - jfoster 3y ago
      Yes, but the point is that they didn't ship it with anything for the wearer to hear audio without disturbing those around. That aspect of the product makes no sense.

jsheard 3y ago

Their storage markups only get more obscene with retail SSD prices continuing to crash. $800 to upgrade from 256GB to 2TB? A fast 2TB NVMe drive can be had for ~$130.

paxys 3y ago
> A fast 2TB NVMe drive can be had for ~$130 Not if the drive is soldered to the motherboard..
- jsheard 3y ago
  With thin laptops you can maybe justify that as a necessary compromise for the form factor, but there's no good reason the Mac Studio shouldn't have a hatch on the bottom with two or three M.2 2280 slots inside. You can put your own PCIe SSDs in the Mac Pro, but that's so wildly marked up compared to an equivalently specced Mac Studio that it probably cancels out any savings.
  - Dalewyn 3y ago
    >there's no good reason There is: Not wanting to support end-user modified products. Apple is never shorthanded on white knights, but more generally I can see why companies might opt to lock out customer modifications under practical pretexts.
    - jsheard 3y ago
      That's their prerogative but I'm not spending thousands of dollars to be treated like a child who can't operate a screwdriver. Hell, I'm sure they could make it a tool-less operation if they wanted to.
  - eurleif 3y ago
    A PCIe/NVME adapter costs $10 on Amazon.
    - 3y ago

ildjarn 3y ago

If they are not consistent about this then more people will start asking questions about iPhone storage tiers.

organsnyder 3y ago
Why offer different storage SKUs at all? Just include the larger amount and bump the price by $30 or whatever.
- sircastor 3y ago
  I assumed it was a yield issue - because everything is on package now
  - helf 3y ago
    [dead]
  - jsheard 3y ago
    The M-series SOCs have the RAM on the package but the NAND flash is still separate, same as ever.

AmVess 3y ago

It is absurd that Apple is still charging laughable amounts of money for tiny, inexpensive components. It was somewhat justifiable before when their products were simply better than anything else. Now, everyone else has caught up on quality, and charge vastly less. Even worse, Apple no longer innovates and simply doesn't care about making things that work. For example, I bought an OLED Windows laptop that was nearly $2000 less than an identically equipped Apple device. Side by side, the Windows unit has better screen and at least equivalent chassis, keyboard, sound, and it has a better touchpad. I have an iphone, and its primary purpose after being a phone is nav in my cars. 75% failure rate the last 4 trips I tried to use it for. Failure as in black screen. This is on top of Apple's increasingly useless nav that has tried to take me out into the boonies more times than I can count. Eventually, people are going to tire of being insulted with high prices and subpar products and switch. I'm already there. The days of me paying to fuel Tim Cook's yacht are over. Apple's headset is so poorly done that it is clear there is deep rot at the top of Apple. When I first saw that absurd front screen, I physically laughed out loud. How anyone at Apple let that through to final product is beyond me. Anyone who brought that crap to Jobs would have been fired on the spot.

samatman 3y ago
> Now, everyone else has caught up on quality, and charge vastly less. This is evidently not true for the Vision widget, which is the topic at hand. The hardware is in a league of its own. I would argue this is also true of the Watch line. I decline to discuss the laptop question, and for phones, sure, if you are ok with paying Apple prices for an Android, you can get one of comparable quality for the same amount of money. Just not for less.
- causal 3y ago
  Yeah and I've yet to see a laptop that comes close to a MBP either. Phone hardware isn't really any better than Samsung though IMO.

raydev 3y ago

> The fact that Apple is still using a difference of 256GB storage to jump the price $200 is really funny to me I've never understood this common opinion. The cost of materials is not a good representation of the manufacturing process, especially since the entire board is built as a unit and not a set of interchangable components. Have people actually run the numbers on the costs of manufacturing the different variations or are they just comparing against the SSDs they can find on Amazon?