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> Version upgrades were also a PITA. Sadly, they have to be. We can't ship Google Apps due to licensing restrictions (and even if we could, a very vocal subse

> Version upgrades were also a PITA. Sadly, they have to be. We can't ship Google Apps due to licensing restrictions (and even if we could, a very vocal subset of users probably wouldn't like that), but not upgrading Google Apps (and/or select other addons/components, for that matter) during a major version bump breaks the installation beyond repair. It's unfortunate that this is the case, but there is no way around telling users to do major version upgrades manually instead of doing it all in-system.

patientzero 3y ago
I've always found the requirement to install these things before reboots odd and it leaves me afraid to do an upgrade (I have no memory of what I did last time and apparently if I do it differently everything will be irrecoverably different?) I'd be happy if the process were always a full reset followed by choosing what to run until the next full reset.. And maybe it is (?) but I never understand what people are talking about in android land.
- timschumi 3y ago
  > I've always found the requirement to install these things before reboots odd and it leaves me afraid to do an upgrade (I have no memory of what I did last time and apparently if I do it differently everything will be irrecoverably different?) The only thing that matters is "did you have Google Apps or not?". This fact can not be changed without doing a factory reset, or your OS will be terribly confused. It shouldn't matter _which_ flavor of a Google Apps package you installed (although the officially recommended one only has one flavor anyways), for this purpose they are freely interchangeable. I also haven't seen any other addon that has this particular destructive trait, so you should be fine as long as you pay attention to "Google Apps or no Google Apps?". > I'd be happy if the process were always a full reset followed by choosing what to run until the next full reset.. And maybe it is (?) but I never understand what people are talking about in android land. You are free to do that, and this is basically the fallback option in case anything related to Google Apps goes wrong while upgrading. It's just that most users don't want to reset their devices each time that a major update appears, so the instructions jump through hoops to accommodate them. Backups are (of course) always recommended, no matter the circumstances.
piaste 3y ago
I'm on GrapheneOS now and the OTA updates are as automatic as on Google Android. I imagine they went with the first option you listed, since they famously ship Google Apps as a sandboxed unprivileged optional package through their own mini-app store. Do you have any idea how they got around those licensing requirements? Big fan of Lineage, btw. Before getting a Pixel, Lineage (and its innumerable spinoffs) allowed me to use the excellent hardware of Xiaomi phones without their godawful software.
- timschumi 3y ago
  > I imagine they went with the first option you listed, since they famously ship Google Apps as a sandboxed unprivileged optional package through their own mini-app store. Do you have any idea how they got around those licensing requirements? The important difference (I imagine) is that they still don't deliver Google Apps built into the ROM (which was what Google was disagreeing with 15 years ago). The current consensus is that it's OK for a separate Google Apps package to exist, and that Google will turn somewhat of a blind eye under the assumption that the package will only be used on devices that have been licensed for use of Google Apps by their respective OEM.
  - piaste 3y ago
    Thanks for the response. It makes sense, for sure. Gonna drop a wild take - if it's such a problem, have you thought about straight up merging the mini-app store and sandboxed GPS package from the GrapheneOS codebase? I know that they focus on Pixels only due to a lot of low-level security features, but I don't think the GPS sandboxing relies on that. Obviously it would take a lot of work but it seems that the solution ought to work just as well for any other Android replacement. Or, to throw another wild guess, are you perhaps concerned that the "blind eye" only extends to Graphene, since they target Google's own devices only (and are lower profile in general, and also apparently contribute a lot of upstream code), while Lineage is much more widespread and well-known so it wouldn't get treated as nicely?
    - timschumi 3y ago

patientzero 3y ago

I've always found the requirement to install these things before reboots odd and it leaves me afraid to do an upgrade (I have no memory of what I did last time and apparently if I do it differently everything will be irrecoverably different?) I'd be happy if the process were always a full reset followed by choosing what to run until the next full reset.. And maybe it is (?) but I never understand what people are talking about in android land.

timschumi 3y ago
> I've always found the requirement to install these things before reboots odd and it leaves me afraid to do an upgrade (I have no memory of what I did last time and apparently if I do it differently everything will be irrecoverably different?) The only thing that matters is "did you have Google Apps or not?". This fact can not be changed without doing a factory reset, or your OS will be terribly confused. It shouldn't matter _which_ flavor of a Google Apps package you installed (although the officially recommended one only has one flavor anyways), for this purpose they are freely interchangeable. I also haven't seen any other addon that has this particular destructive trait, so you should be fine as long as you pay attention to "Google Apps or no Google Apps?". > I'd be happy if the process were always a full reset followed by choosing what to run until the next full reset.. And maybe it is (?) but I never understand what people are talking about in android land. You are free to do that, and this is basically the fallback option in case anything related to Google Apps goes wrong while upgrading. It's just that most users don't want to reset their devices each time that a major update appears, so the instructions jump through hoops to accommodate them. Backups are (of course) always recommended, no matter the circumstances.

piaste 3y ago

I'm on GrapheneOS now and the OTA updates are as automatic as on Google Android. I imagine they went with the first option you listed, since they famously ship Google Apps as a sandboxed unprivileged optional package through their own mini-app store. Do you have any idea how they got around those licensing requirements? Big fan of Lineage, btw. Before getting a Pixel, Lineage (and its innumerable spinoffs) allowed me to use the excellent hardware of Xiaomi phones without their godawful software.

timschumi 3y ago
> I imagine they went with the first option you listed, since they famously ship Google Apps as a sandboxed unprivileged optional package through their own mini-app store. Do you have any idea how they got around those licensing requirements? The important difference (I imagine) is that they still don't deliver Google Apps built into the ROM (which was what Google was disagreeing with 15 years ago). The current consensus is that it's OK for a separate Google Apps package to exist, and that Google will turn somewhat of a blind eye under the assumption that the package will only be used on devices that have been licensed for use of Google Apps by their respective OEM.
- piaste 3y ago
  Thanks for the response. It makes sense, for sure. Gonna drop a wild take - if it's such a problem, have you thought about straight up merging the mini-app store and sandboxed GPS package from the GrapheneOS codebase? I know that they focus on Pixels only due to a lot of low-level security features, but I don't think the GPS sandboxing relies on that. Obviously it would take a lot of work but it seems that the solution ought to work just as well for any other Android replacement. Or, to throw another wild guess, are you perhaps concerned that the "blind eye" only extends to Graphene, since they target Google's own devices only (and are lower profile in general, and also apparently contribute a lot of upstream code), while Lineage is much more widespread and well-known so it wouldn't get treated as nicely?
  - timschumi 3y ago