3 ms·

I think the actual issue is that a government holds the insane belief that by blocking one out of many ways that someone could make an anonymous threat, it some

I think the actual issue is that a government holds the insane belief that by blocking one out of many ways that someone could make an anonymous threat, it somehow contributes to the safety of their citizens.

alephnerd 3y ago
> blocking one out of many ways that someone could make an anonymous threat, it somehow contributes to the safety of their citizens If you make an anonymous bomb threat using Gmail in India, Google will hand off all information to the Indian government as they have operations in India and will be held liable, just like they would in the US. This is the reason why Proton AG honors American law enforcement requests - the US and Switzerland have an agreement that data platforms in both countries need to honor each other's law enforcement requests. If Proton AG won't give User metadata without litigation in Switzerland, it will get blocked in those jurisdictions it doesn't play ball with. This is why most piracy platforms and data platforms will honor metadata requests from US Law Enforcement - you will become a toxic financial liability if you choose to flout US litigation.
- shaan7 3y ago
  Your statements are correct but they aren't relevant to parent's point. Blocking an email provider has absolutely no positive effect on the safety of the citizens. While it has the potential of a lot of negative effects, like the inability of other innocent citizens to use their email account. It is the same thing when the GoI went ahead and blocked pastebin.com because of a bunch of pastes.
  - alephnerd 3y ago
    > Blocking an email provider has absolutely no positive effect on the safety of the citizens I agree that it's a half assed patched, but if a platform isn't responding to litigation or law enforcement requests, there is always the chance of bad actors weaponizing that loophole. And it's not like Proton AG hasn't been linked to terror attacks. The perpetrator of the Bataclan Massacre used Protonmail to communicate with handlers, leading to the French government to require email platforms like Proton AG to honor French law enforcement requests [1]. [0] - https://www.wired.com/2015/11/isis-opsec-encryption-manuals-reveal-terrorist-group-security-protocols/ https://www.wired.com/2015/11/isis-opsec-encryption-manuals-... [1] - https://www.ejn-crimjust.europa.eu/ejnupload/DynamicPages/France_Fiches%20Belges-on-electronic-evidence.pdf https://www.ejn-crimjust.europa.eu/ejnupload/DynamicPages/Fr...
    - protonmail 3y ago
      That is false information, there was no connection between Proton and the Bataclan attack.
      - alephnerd 3y ago
        Upvote this. Can't edit my previous comment which misread the wired article linked or can @Dang just delete the offending comment for incorrect/misleading info?
  - heikrana 3y ago
    > blocked pastebin.com because of a bunch of pastes Say what now?!
    - alephnerd 3y ago
      It was a temporary block due to an overly broad denylist the Indian government put out in 2013. Pastebin ended up getting unblocked in India in the same time period as well.
  - kumarvvr 3y ago
    > Blocking an email provider has absolutely no positive effect on the safety of the citizens. If all the available platforms allow for data sharing and tracking on judicial orders, then a perpetrator does not have a safe way to give threats, without the risk of being identified. In my opinion, this is a deterrent in itself, the fear of getting caught.
    - shaan7 3y ago
      Ah my bad, I should have explicitly mentioned that merely a threat does not constitute a safety issue enough to justify a broad ban. If such a ban could prevent a real attack, then sure. Yes, personally even I would feel disturbed and anxious when somebody threatens me, but it would be too broad to classify mental disturbance as a safety issue. I am saying this having survived an episode where my father was threatened for life.
- mdp2021 3y ago
  > using Gmail in India, Google will hand off all information Why should you use am E-Mail provider to send an electronic postcard. Since when would you need a third party to send E-Mails?
  - mdp2021 3y ago
    Explain yourself, usual annoying sniper... To the best of my memory, sending emails did not require external infrastructure.
testhn2ac 3y ago
[flagged]
capybara_2020 3y ago
It feels like the Indian gov is reactionary and has tunnel vision. They fix one problem but never consider if that fix will cause problems elsewhere or if even if that fix is worth it.

alephnerd 3y ago

> blocking one out of many ways that someone could make an anonymous threat, it somehow contributes to the safety of their citizens If you make an anonymous bomb threat using Gmail in India, Google will hand off all information to the Indian government as they have operations in India and will be held liable, just like they would in the US. This is the reason why Proton AG honors American law enforcement requests - the US and Switzerland have an agreement that data platforms in both countries need to honor each other's law enforcement requests. If Proton AG won't give User metadata without litigation in Switzerland, it will get blocked in those jurisdictions it doesn't play ball with. This is why most piracy platforms and data platforms will honor metadata requests from US Law Enforcement - you will become a toxic financial liability if you choose to flout US litigation.

shaan7 3y ago
Your statements are correct but they aren't relevant to parent's point. Blocking an email provider has absolutely no positive effect on the safety of the citizens. While it has the potential of a lot of negative effects, like the inability of other innocent citizens to use their email account. It is the same thing when the GoI went ahead and blocked pastebin.com because of a bunch of pastes.
- alephnerd 3y ago
  > Blocking an email provider has absolutely no positive effect on the safety of the citizens I agree that it's a half assed patched, but if a platform isn't responding to litigation or law enforcement requests, there is always the chance of bad actors weaponizing that loophole. And it's not like Proton AG hasn't been linked to terror attacks. The perpetrator of the Bataclan Massacre used Protonmail to communicate with handlers, leading to the French government to require email platforms like Proton AG to honor French law enforcement requests [1]. [0] - https://www.wired.com/2015/11/isis-opsec-encryption-manuals-reveal-terrorist-group-security-protocols/ https://www.wired.com/2015/11/isis-opsec-encryption-manuals-... [1] - https://www.ejn-crimjust.europa.eu/ejnupload/DynamicPages/France_Fiches%20Belges-on-electronic-evidence.pdf https://www.ejn-crimjust.europa.eu/ejnupload/DynamicPages/Fr...
  - protonmail 3y ago
    That is false information, there was no connection between Proton and the Bataclan attack.
    - alephnerd 3y ago
      Upvote this. Can't edit my previous comment which misread the wired article linked or can @Dang just delete the offending comment for incorrect/misleading info?
- heikrana 3y ago
  > blocked pastebin.com because of a bunch of pastes Say what now?!
  - alephnerd 3y ago
    It was a temporary block due to an overly broad denylist the Indian government put out in 2013. Pastebin ended up getting unblocked in India in the same time period as well.
- kumarvvr 3y ago
  > Blocking an email provider has absolutely no positive effect on the safety of the citizens. If all the available platforms allow for data sharing and tracking on judicial orders, then a perpetrator does not have a safe way to give threats, without the risk of being identified. In my opinion, this is a deterrent in itself, the fear of getting caught.
  - shaan7 3y ago
    Ah my bad, I should have explicitly mentioned that merely a threat does not constitute a safety issue enough to justify a broad ban. If such a ban could prevent a real attack, then sure. Yes, personally even I would feel disturbed and anxious when somebody threatens me, but it would be too broad to classify mental disturbance as a safety issue. I am saying this having survived an episode where my father was threatened for life.
mdp2021 3y ago
> using Gmail in India, Google will hand off all information Why should you use am E-Mail provider to send an electronic postcard. Since when would you need a third party to send E-Mails?
- mdp2021 3y ago
  Explain yourself, usual annoying sniper... To the best of my memory, sending emails did not require external infrastructure.

testhn2ac 3y ago

[flagged]

capybara_2020 3y ago

It feels like the Indian gov is reactionary and has tunnel vision. They fix one problem but never consider if that fix will cause problems elsewhere or if even if that fix is worth it.