3 ms·
> The markets made sure that the plants got their costs covered and stayed online. I don't really understand your point here. In an otc trade, costs are also c
by pyrale 3y ago
> The markets made sure that the plants got their costs covered and stayed online.
I don't really understand your point here. In an otc trade, costs are also covered, no one works for free.
That being said, my original point was not even about that. It was more about lines in the article that strongly hint that, in the author's opinion, the current issue is politicians not doing enough to force their citizen to swallow the pill. Relevant paragraph:
> Further market integration requires substantial political investment. Governments will need to deal with significant distributional effects within and between countries. Experience has shown that domestic political constraints in this respect are often numerous and difficult to overcome.
- jnsaff2 3y agoHow is OTC better than markets? PPA's still exist alongside markets without issues.
- pyrale 3y agoI'm not saying one is better than the other. I'm saying power availability doesn't require a market.
- jnsaff2 3y agoWhat are you trying to claim then? That with completely non-public OTC deals prices would be better somehow?
- pyrale 3y ago> The way I see 2022 was a crisis of energy PRICES, had the markets not been there it might have been a crisis of energy AVAILABILITY. I'm simply saying that markets have no first-order effect on availability. As for prices, it's another matter.
- jnsaff2 3y agoUnavailability of generation due to it being uneconomical to generate has a very direct effect on availability. The electricity market price is downstream dependent on gas market price among others. You want to also remove gas markets then? Anyway, I would gladly hear what would have 2022 looked like had there not been electricity markets.
- pyrale 3y ago> Unavailability of generation due to it being uneconomical to generate has a very direct effect on availability. Production can't be ramped up significantly in the span of a crisis. In that sense, a different trading scheme wouldn't have made a difference in terms of resource availability during the crisis. > The electricity market price is downstream dependent on gas market price among others. You want to also remove gas markets then? Not sure what connection you make between that and my point. > Anyway, I would gladly hear what would have 2022 looked like had there not been electricity markets. From an availability PoV, exactly the same. Markets are not responsible for making sure that production is available, or actually used ; that's the role of TSOs.
- jnsaff2 3y ago> Production can't be ramped up significantly in the span of a crisis. In that sense, a different trading scheme wouldn't have made a difference in terms of resource availability during the crisis. What do those words even mean? If you are a power plant and your consumables price goes up. If you can't get the price you sell electricity at increased then you will shut down and your generation will be not available to the grid.
- pyrale 3y ago> If you can't get the price you sell electricity at increased then you will shut down and your generation will be not available to the grid. That simply doesn't happen. Whether an exchange is there to "facilitate" trade, or whether Alice in Paris calls bob in Frankfurt to ask how much 2 GWh will cost for the next day, money will change hands, and the plant will work.