4 ms·

You have to pay extra because it costs more. It costs money to handle cash. At minimum you have to maintain and empty machines. If you have people like bus dri

by slyall 3y ago

You have to pay extra because it costs more. It costs money to handle cash. At minimum you have to maintain and empty machines. If you have people like bus drivers accepting cash manually hen it slows down boarding and you have additional security risks.

Am4TIfIsER0ppos 3y ago
Where can I get tickets tor the MIVB/STIB network and pay in cash? It was my impression that that they have gone more cashless than even the Amsterdam network.
- seabass-labrax 3y ago
  They are really pushing the cashless option, but I believe it is still possible to purchase disposable, temporary and somewhat anonymous MOBIB tickets at the red-painted vending machines (available at certain tram stops and metro stations). There is a slot to enter cash on these machines, although I have never used this myself so can't personally verify that it works. The older, blue vending machines don't have a cash option, if I recall correctly.
  - em-bee 3y ago
    do they offer stored-value cards that work instead of credit cards?
    - seabass-labrax 3y ago
      No, unfortunately not. The closest thing to a stored-value card is how you can store multiple individual tickets on a personal or 'anonymous' MOBIB card. To do this, you insert both your cash and your MOBIB card into the vending machine when you purchase a ticket. If you're asking from a privacy perspective, it's not a great situation :( - Bank cards and personal MOBIB cards (registered with your postal address) can obviously be used to track your movements - Anonymous MOBIB cards aren't specifically linked to your identity, but they could still be used to track you as an individual as you use the tickets you have stored on it - Paper tickets are actually just disposable MOBIB cards which can't be reloaded. The only saving grace privacy-wise is that the longest validity ticket is one day, so you can't be tracked across different days - as long as you purchase the ticket with cash! If you use a smartphone with Google Pay or Apple Pay, there might be an option to use a temporary VISA/Mastercard number. That probably throws STIB/MIVB off the scent, but then you have Google or Apple tracking you instead.
      - em-bee 3y ago
        Anonymous MOBIB cards aren't specifically linked to your identity, but they could still be used to track you as an individual as you use the tickets you have stored on it can those tickets be bought and loaded onto the card with cash? i think this is pretty much the best tradeoff between anonymity and convenience. i used cards like that in many different cities. the only thing on top of that would be to occasionally trade cards with other people so that the IDs on those cards get mixed up. but i don't know how much benefit that gives when it is easy to detect behavior changes. one would have to trade cards every other day.
        seabass-labrax 3y ago
        > can those tickets be bought and loaded onto the card with cash? No, it isn't possible to load money onto MOBIB cards, only specific tickets :/ > i think this is pretty much the best tradeoff between anonymity and convenience. i used cards like that in many different cities. Interesting; the most similar thing I've used is the Oyster Card with Transport for London, but like with Brussels, they are also strongly promoting paying with bank cards. They are making it difficult to get an Oyster Card, and once you've finished with your card, you don't get back your £7 deposit any longer.
        em-bee 3y ago
        i meant, when i buy tickets to load onto the card, can i pay for those tickets with cash, or is the ticket payment somehow connectable to my person? anyways, it seems less convenient than a stored value card unless there is only one kind of ticket anyways and you are just counting down rides.
        seabass-labrax 3y ago
        > i meant, when i buy tickets to load onto the card, can i pay for those tickets with cash, or is the ticket payment somehow connectable to my person? Yes, the vending machines that issue tickets take cash (again, I believe this option is available only with the red vending machines, which you can just make out in this picture[1]). > anyways, it seems less convenient than a stored value card unless there is only one kind of ticket anyways and you are just counting down rides. Agreed, but see @zvr's comment further up the thread - it turns out the 10-journey Brupass option is cheaper than bank card payments, so would indeed make 'counting down rides' the best option unless you want to make many short journeys in a single day. [1]: https://www.stib-mivb.be/irj/go/km/docs/WEBSITE_RES/Attachments/Vente-Verkoop/GO/Share_AVM_New.jpg https://www.stib-mivb.be/irj/go/km/docs/WEBSITE_RES/Attachme...

by slyall 3y ago

Am4TIfIsER0ppos 3y ago

Where can I get tickets tor the MIVB/STIB network and pay in cash? It was my impression that that they have gone more cashless than even the Amsterdam network.

seabass-labrax 3y ago
They are really pushing the cashless option, but I believe it is still possible to purchase disposable, temporary and somewhat anonymous MOBIB tickets at the red-painted vending machines (available at certain tram stops and metro stations). There is a slot to enter cash on these machines, although I have never used this myself so can't personally verify that it works. The older, blue vending machines don't have a cash option, if I recall correctly.
- em-bee 3y ago
  do they offer stored-value cards that work instead of credit cards?
  - seabass-labrax 3y ago
    No, unfortunately not. The closest thing to a stored-value card is how you can store multiple individual tickets on a personal or 'anonymous' MOBIB card. To do this, you insert both your cash and your MOBIB card into the vending machine when you purchase a ticket. If you're asking from a privacy perspective, it's not a great situation :( - Bank cards and personal MOBIB cards (registered with your postal address) can obviously be used to track your movements - Anonymous MOBIB cards aren't specifically linked to your identity, but they could still be used to track you as an individual as you use the tickets you have stored on it - Paper tickets are actually just disposable MOBIB cards which can't be reloaded. The only saving grace privacy-wise is that the longest validity ticket is one day, so you can't be tracked across different days - as long as you purchase the ticket with cash! If you use a smartphone with Google Pay or Apple Pay, there might be an option to use a temporary VISA/Mastercard number. That probably throws STIB/MIVB off the scent, but then you have Google or Apple tracking you instead.
    - em-bee 3y ago
      Anonymous MOBIB cards aren't specifically linked to your identity, but they could still be used to track you as an individual as you use the tickets you have stored on it can those tickets be bought and loaded onto the card with cash? i think this is pretty much the best tradeoff between anonymity and convenience. i used cards like that in many different cities. the only thing on top of that would be to occasionally trade cards with other people so that the IDs on those cards get mixed up. but i don't know how much benefit that gives when it is easy to detect behavior changes. one would have to trade cards every other day.
      - seabass-labrax 3y ago
        > can those tickets be bought and loaded onto the card with cash? No, it isn't possible to load money onto MOBIB cards, only specific tickets :/ > i think this is pretty much the best tradeoff between anonymity and convenience. i used cards like that in many different cities. Interesting; the most similar thing I've used is the Oyster Card with Transport for London, but like with Brussels, they are also strongly promoting paying with bank cards. They are making it difficult to get an Oyster Card, and once you've finished with your card, you don't get back your £7 deposit any longer.
        em-bee 3y ago
        i meant, when i buy tickets to load onto the card, can i pay for those tickets with cash, or is the ticket payment somehow connectable to my person? anyways, it seems less convenient than a stored value card unless there is only one kind of ticket anyways and you are just counting down rides.
        seabass-labrax 3y ago
        > i meant, when i buy tickets to load onto the card, can i pay for those tickets with cash, or is the ticket payment somehow connectable to my person? Yes, the vending machines that issue tickets take cash (again, I believe this option is available only with the red vending machines, which you can just make out in this picture[1]). > anyways, it seems less convenient than a stored value card unless there is only one kind of ticket anyways and you are just counting down rides. Agreed, but see @zvr's comment further up the thread - it turns out the 10-journey Brupass option is cheaper than bank card payments, so would indeed make 'counting down rides' the best option unless you want to make many short journeys in a single day. [1]: https://www.stib-mivb.be/irj/go/km/docs/WEBSITE_RES/Attachments/Vente-Verkoop/GO/Share_AVM_New.jpg https://www.stib-mivb.be/irj/go/km/docs/WEBSITE_RES/Attachme...