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End result looked good, but lying for clickbait isn't cool even if you admit it in a blog post way after the fact.

by spencerflem 3y ago

readthenotes1 3y ago
Which is the lie? Can art lie? Spinal Tap is not a documentary...
- spencerflem 3y ago
  read the second conclusion in the article, there's a difference
- Cheer2171 3y ago
  Spinal Tap is a parody. Parody and satire are such that the audience is not initially told the performance is a lie, but the work itself gives more and more clues that it is not real. It gets more and more ridiculous. The point of a parody is to comment on the thing parodied. He actively worked hard to hide that it is not real. He gave no subtle clues. The work's lie does not make a commentary on Netflix, craft art, or anything. The only thing the lie does is make you think he is a really skilled craft worker. That's why the video spread, and so that's why there is such outrage at the lie. It wouldn't have gone viral if he admitted it was CGI. The Spinal Tap version of this would be like the same TikTok style DIY videos, where it is common to show some steps and the jump to the finished product, but where it would be obvious that he had not DIYed it. Like if he took $30 of yarn and used camera tricks to "build" a fully working computer to watch Netflix. That would be a parody commenting on the same thing as the "draw the rest of the fucking owl" meme [1] [1] https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/how-to-draw-an-owl https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/how-to-draw-an-owl
samatman 3y ago
Fargo opens with "This is a true story. The events depicted in this film took place in Minnesota in 1987. At the request of the survivors, the names have been changed. Out of respect for the dead, the rest has been told exactly as it occurred." The disclaimer that this is not, in fact, the case, is in small print in the closing credits. What's the difference?
- spencerflem 3y ago
  second conclusion in the article gets into that- the viewer of this video is expected to Never find out it was a lie. The video is much less charming once you know its digital. I feel cheated. Audience expectation of a behind the scenes vid: 100% truthful if maybe edited to look more fun Audience expectation of a movie: less so, tho tbh the Fargo one might be crossing a line
- lordswork 3y ago
  On the other extreme, do you care if a video presenting itself as authentic is fully staged or not? Does it matter if a video you watched was fully AI generated but is claiming not to be?
- Spivak 3y ago
  What you're describing is a cultural thing specific to the horror/thriller genre -- the audience is in on it. Even when you know it's not real acting like it's real helps people get into the right headspace to feel the fear. Fargo is a fictional "movie adaptation of a real events."
dcow 3y ago
My gut tells me lying for clicks “isn’t cool” because I might feel bad if I was one of the clickers. But is it formally unethical? Lying for profit seems obviously unethical because there’s an exchange of currency for a service. So if I contracted you to make a stop motion thing and you faked it with animation I’d be rightfully pissed. But lying for entertainment? Haven’t we been doing that for millennia? Pro Wrestling, Hollywood, History, Makeup, Mythology, etc… If you have given me nothing and I give you a lie, who is harmed? I may have broken your trust, and you may not like it, but that’s just that. Or is attention the new currency?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- spencerflem 3y ago
  I don't see the difference between you contracting the service, and you watching the video, in both cases the unconventional method was the point and anyways, now I have to be a little more sceptical watching fun handmade things online, which is a shame
  - dcow 3y ago
    For the purposes of discussion: In my experience there’s a very real difference. In the first case I’m not getting what I purchased. In the 2nd case I was scrolling videos looking to be entertained. The video entertained me; therefore, I got what I came for. I am no less disillusioned in either case when learning the truth. But in one case I was cheated out of something of value while in the other I was no less entertained in the moment (even if I paid for the entertainment, I got what I paid for). Maybe I don’t want to see your videos anymore because you made me feel bad later, but you still entertained me in the moment I was looking for it. IDK now I’m honestly kinda curious. I read the apology piece thinking this guy is a dishonest jerk but now I’m really wondering if he needed to apologize at all. Though, I imagine this was eating at him and it is refreshing to clear his guilty conscience. So the advice to probably don’t do this likely holds for people with similar dispositions.
    - 3y ago

End result looked good, but lying for clickbait isn't cool even if you admit it in a blog post way after the fact.

readthenotes1 3y ago

Which is the lie? Can art lie? Spinal Tap is not a documentary...

spencerflem 3y ago
read the second conclusion in the article, there's a difference
Cheer2171 3y ago
Spinal Tap is a parody. Parody and satire are such that the audience is not initially told the performance is a lie, but the work itself gives more and more clues that it is not real. It gets more and more ridiculous. The point of a parody is to comment on the thing parodied. He actively worked hard to hide that it is not real. He gave no subtle clues. The work's lie does not make a commentary on Netflix, craft art, or anything. The only thing the lie does is make you think he is a really skilled craft worker. That's why the video spread, and so that's why there is such outrage at the lie. It wouldn't have gone viral if he admitted it was CGI. The Spinal Tap version of this would be like the same TikTok style DIY videos, where it is common to show some steps and the jump to the finished product, but where it would be obvious that he had not DIYed it. Like if he took $30 of yarn and used camera tricks to "build" a fully working computer to watch Netflix. That would be a parody commenting on the same thing as the "draw the rest of the fucking owl" meme [1] [1] https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/how-to-draw-an-owl https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/how-to-draw-an-owl

samatman 3y ago

Fargo opens with "This is a true story. The events depicted in this film took place in Minnesota in 1987. At the request of the survivors, the names have been changed. Out of respect for the dead, the rest has been told exactly as it occurred." The disclaimer that this is not, in fact, the case, is in small print in the closing credits. What's the difference?

spencerflem 3y ago
second conclusion in the article gets into that- the viewer of this video is expected to Never find out it was a lie. The video is much less charming once you know its digital. I feel cheated. Audience expectation of a behind the scenes vid: 100% truthful if maybe edited to look more fun Audience expectation of a movie: less so, tho tbh the Fargo one might be crossing a line
lordswork 3y ago
On the other extreme, do you care if a video presenting itself as authentic is fully staged or not? Does it matter if a video you watched was fully AI generated but is claiming not to be?
Spivak 3y ago
What you're describing is a cultural thing specific to the horror/thriller genre -- the audience is in on it. Even when you know it's not real acting like it's real helps people get into the right headspace to feel the fear. Fargo is a fictional "movie adaptation of a real events."

dcow 3y ago

My gut tells me lying for clicks “isn’t cool” because I might feel bad if I was one of the clickers. But is it formally unethical? Lying for profit seems obviously unethical because there’s an exchange of currency for a service. So if I contracted you to make a stop motion thing and you faked it with animation I’d be rightfully pissed. But lying for entertainment? Haven’t we been doing that for millennia? Pro Wrestling, Hollywood, History, Makeup, Mythology, etc… If you have given me nothing and I give you a lie, who is harmed? I may have broken your trust, and you may not like it, but that’s just that. Or is attention the new currency?

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
spencerflem 3y ago
I don't see the difference between you contracting the service, and you watching the video, in both cases the unconventional method was the point and anyways, now I have to be a little more sceptical watching fun handmade things online, which is a shame
- dcow 3y ago
  For the purposes of discussion: In my experience there’s a very real difference. In the first case I’m not getting what I purchased. In the 2nd case I was scrolling videos looking to be entertained. The video entertained me; therefore, I got what I came for. I am no less disillusioned in either case when learning the truth. But in one case I was cheated out of something of value while in the other I was no less entertained in the moment (even if I paid for the entertainment, I got what I paid for). Maybe I don’t want to see your videos anymore because you made me feel bad later, but you still entertained me in the moment I was looking for it. IDK now I’m honestly kinda curious. I read the apology piece thinking this guy is a dishonest jerk but now I’m really wondering if he needed to apologize at all. Though, I imagine this was eating at him and it is refreshing to clear his guilty conscience. So the advice to probably don’t do this likely holds for people with similar dispositions.
  - 3y ago