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This feels like the "be careful what you wish for" consequence of WFH logic. Yes, you can never leave your house and do everything via Zoom! After all, why com

This feels like the "be careful what you wish for" consequence of WFH logic. Yes, you can never leave your house and do everything via Zoom! After all, why commute to a pointless office when you could be at home meeting people online? If you start thinking this way, suddenly most interactions that can be done from home start to seem like a waste of time. The question I always ask WFH advocates is this: when was the last time you had a meaningful in-person interaction with someone outside of your household? Most of the time, they can't even remember.

toomuchtodo 3y ago
Remote Work advocate here, remote for the last 10 years, in tech for ~23 years. Show me a person worth putting meaningful effort into to build and cultivate a relationship outside of my household and I'd put the effort in. These people are already rare, and superficial/ephemeral relationships are the norm. I have made a few friends over >20 years in tech, but most people aren't there to be your friend; the moment you bounce on the job, are let go, or fired, you'll never hear from them again (regardless of what is said or moments shared during overlapping employment). Jeff Bezos once said he was looking for a partner who could extract him from a third world prison. People I would do that for, or would expect of them, are who I would rather focus my energy and time on. Are you investable? https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/magazines/panache/i-wanted-a-woman-who-could-get-me-out-of-a-3rd-world-prison-jeff-bezos/articleshow/61736341.cms https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/magazines/panache/i-wan... TLDR Focus on relationships that matter (family, friends outside of work with strong/lasting bonds) versus social or professional ceremony, or faux relationships. Sometimes, weak interactions are a waste of time, and time is non renewable. (i chalk my position up to living in a low trust, high volatility society, ymmv)
- Gigachad 3y ago
  Not everyone has to be a life long friend. It’s completely fine to be friends with someone for only a year and move on. Children become friends with someone they randomly meet at a park and will never see again. I’ve found that almost everyone in the workplace is pretty open to socialising and usually has something interesting to tell you.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - red-iron-pine 3y ago
    > and usually has something interesting to tell you. nah. I've found that most of my coworkers were autistic video game nerds -- great, I love games too -- and that I've worked with essentially the same guy in like 4 jobs. all of their hot takes read like the same cringe posts you'd see on reddit. not bad guys, some skilled programmers, but not really interesting. a few interesting outliers, some of whom I'm still in contact with, but after I left the org I never saw them again. 6 months after you leave the org no one there will remember your name, and I don't think it is worthwhile to restructure your work life in order to socialize with people you're only around because you need to pay your mortgage. Go to meetup.com group, or a bar, or join a sports team, book club, etc.
jeremyjh 3y ago
I’m very much an introvert but I couldn’t handle WFH long term for this reason. I work 3 days a week in my company’s office in a coworking space. My team and most regular coworkers are remote and I don’t even have a meaningful interaction every day but I think just a little small talk and change of scene is enough to break up the weeks. Its a big deal though that my commute is not bad - I take an express bus and can work or play in my laptop the whole time. I don’t really consider it worth driving in traffic.
icedchai 3y ago
After almost 4 years of WFH, I totally despise it. I miss in-person collaboration and going to lunch with coworkers. I work for an all remote company, unfortunately. I’m thinking about renting a spot at a coworking space.
- Gigachad 3y ago
  Feeling the same. It’s just so soulless. Working in office wasn’t sunshine and joy all the time, but at least it wasn’t isolating.
  - skyyler 3y ago
    I think it all comes down to if you have a social life outside of work. I do, and remote work is a dream. For me, having more time and energy for parties and events is quite the opposite of isolation.
    - Gigachad 3y ago
      Nah don't agree. I'm out all the time after work and it's great, but I used to get to talk to people during work as well. 8 hours of your day now spent sitting alone at home is a huge chunk of your time regardless of what you do on the weekend.
      - skyyler 3y ago
        Ah, I didn't consider that aspect. I live with my wife who is an artist so I'm never really alone at home. If I was single it would probably be a little more isolating, yeah.
- red-iron-pine 3y ago
  I've done that. People at the coworking space weren't especially talkative, and while there were private rooms for conversations, there wasn't any monitors or outlets in there. anything sensitive had to be done at home, anyway, and since several were projects that involved PII, I had to work at home most of the time, regardless. $320/mo to have to walk across town and try to talk to people with whom you have nothing in common with (even the same employer) except existing in physical space. like, the people weren't bad or unfriendly, but there was no organic connection. the extra exercise was nice but otherwise wasn't worth it; coworking spaces are memes. a morning floor hockey team at the YMCA made me more friends than any in-person office experience or coworking space.
lotsofpulp 3y ago
>when was the last time you had a meaningful in-person interaction with someone outside of your household? I would rephrase this to "when was the last time you put effort into having a meaningful in-person interaction with someone outside of your household?" Make some extra food and give it to some neighbors, see who reciprocates, etc. It takes a decent amount of work and sacrifice, and what I see is most people not wanting to do it.

toomuchtodo 3y ago

Remote Work advocate here, remote for the last 10 years, in tech for ~23 years. Show me a person worth putting meaningful effort into to build and cultivate a relationship outside of my household and I'd put the effort in. These people are already rare, and superficial/ephemeral relationships are the norm. I have made a few friends over >20 years in tech, but most people aren't there to be your friend; the moment you bounce on the job, are let go, or fired, you'll never hear from them again (regardless of what is said or moments shared during overlapping employment). Jeff Bezos once said he was looking for a partner who could extract him from a third world prison. People I would do that for, or would expect of them, are who I would rather focus my energy and time on. Are you investable? https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/magazines/panache/i-wanted-a-woman-who-could-get-me-out-of-a-3rd-world-prison-jeff-bezos/articleshow/61736341.cms https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/magazines/panache/i-wan... TLDR Focus on relationships that matter (family, friends outside of work with strong/lasting bonds) versus social or professional ceremony, or faux relationships. Sometimes, weak interactions are a waste of time, and time is non renewable. (i chalk my position up to living in a low trust, high volatility society, ymmv)

Gigachad 3y ago
Not everyone has to be a life long friend. It’s completely fine to be friends with someone for only a year and move on. Children become friends with someone they randomly meet at a park and will never see again. I’ve found that almost everyone in the workplace is pretty open to socialising and usually has something interesting to tell you.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- red-iron-pine 3y ago
  > and usually has something interesting to tell you. nah. I've found that most of my coworkers were autistic video game nerds -- great, I love games too -- and that I've worked with essentially the same guy in like 4 jobs. all of their hot takes read like the same cringe posts you'd see on reddit. not bad guys, some skilled programmers, but not really interesting. a few interesting outliers, some of whom I'm still in contact with, but after I left the org I never saw them again. 6 months after you leave the org no one there will remember your name, and I don't think it is worthwhile to restructure your work life in order to socialize with people you're only around because you need to pay your mortgage. Go to meetup.com group, or a bar, or join a sports team, book club, etc.

jeremyjh 3y ago

I’m very much an introvert but I couldn’t handle WFH long term for this reason. I work 3 days a week in my company’s office in a coworking space. My team and most regular coworkers are remote and I don’t even have a meaningful interaction every day but I think just a little small talk and change of scene is enough to break up the weeks. Its a big deal though that my commute is not bad - I take an express bus and can work or play in my laptop the whole time. I don’t really consider it worth driving in traffic.

icedchai 3y ago

After almost 4 years of WFH, I totally despise it. I miss in-person collaboration and going to lunch with coworkers. I work for an all remote company, unfortunately. I’m thinking about renting a spot at a coworking space.

Gigachad 3y ago
Feeling the same. It’s just so soulless. Working in office wasn’t sunshine and joy all the time, but at least it wasn’t isolating.
- skyyler 3y ago
  I think it all comes down to if you have a social life outside of work. I do, and remote work is a dream. For me, having more time and energy for parties and events is quite the opposite of isolation.
  - Gigachad 3y ago
    Nah don't agree. I'm out all the time after work and it's great, but I used to get to talk to people during work as well. 8 hours of your day now spent sitting alone at home is a huge chunk of your time regardless of what you do on the weekend.
    - skyyler 3y ago
      Ah, I didn't consider that aspect. I live with my wife who is an artist so I'm never really alone at home. If I was single it would probably be a little more isolating, yeah.
red-iron-pine 3y ago
I've done that. People at the coworking space weren't especially talkative, and while there were private rooms for conversations, there wasn't any monitors or outlets in there. anything sensitive had to be done at home, anyway, and since several were projects that involved PII, I had to work at home most of the time, regardless. $320/mo to have to walk across town and try to talk to people with whom you have nothing in common with (even the same employer) except existing in physical space. like, the people weren't bad or unfriendly, but there was no organic connection. the extra exercise was nice but otherwise wasn't worth it; coworking spaces are memes. a morning floor hockey team at the YMCA made me more friends than any in-person office experience or coworking space.

lotsofpulp 3y ago

>when was the last time you had a meaningful in-person interaction with someone outside of your household? I would rephrase this to "when was the last time you put effort into having a meaningful in-person interaction with someone outside of your household?" Make some extra food and give it to some neighbors, see who reciprocates, etc. It takes a decent amount of work and sacrifice, and what I see is most people not wanting to do it.