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> disdain for the specific tool vs. disdain for what working in a mid-to-large org You're kind of missing the problem here - it's both and neither. It's not t

> disdain for the specific tool vs. disdain for what working in a mid-to-large org You're kind of missing the problem here - it's both and neither. It's not the tool (it's awful) or the mid-to-large org itself, it's the concept that a tool as blunt as a ticketing system can meaningfully capture software development management in a useful way. If people just treated it as a "necessary evil" time-tracking type system to make sure people were really working when they said they were, that would be irritating but not damaging. But far too many people without a lot of mental faculties actually take it completely seriously and try to put everything in it and expect meaningful results out of it. It actually ends up being worse than "nothing at all" because it _insists_ on the "only do what can be predicted and whose predictions is measured in hours" model of software development that stupid people think encapsulates creative activities.

lijok 3y ago
> But far too many people without a lot of mental faculties actually take it completely seriously and try to put everything in it and expect meaningful results out of it. It actually ends up being worse than "nothing at all" because it _insists_ on the "only do what can be predicted and whose predictions is measured in hours" model of software development that stupid people think encapsulates creative activities. You’re conflating ticketing systems with work estimation.
- commandlinefan 3y ago
  So are they.
dboreham 3y ago
> the concept that a tool as blunt as a ticketing system can meaningfully capture software development management in a useful way. The background to this is : yes it can. I worked in organizations (long pre-Jira) where we developed the bug/ticketing system specifically to drive our development management process. The two evolved in concert. The result was excellent, and sadly has never been re-achieved with any of the modern tools. My take on this is that somebody was told that the bug system can be used to drive project management (which it can) but then implemented a bug system without any real understanding of what that means or how to achieve it.

lijok 3y ago

> But far too many people without a lot of mental faculties actually take it completely seriously and try to put everything in it and expect meaningful results out of it. It actually ends up being worse than "nothing at all" because it _insists_ on the "only do what can be predicted and whose predictions is measured in hours" model of software development that stupid people think encapsulates creative activities. You’re conflating ticketing systems with work estimation.

commandlinefan 3y ago
So are they.

dboreham 3y ago

> the concept that a tool as blunt as a ticketing system can meaningfully capture software development management in a useful way. The background to this is : yes it can. I worked in organizations (long pre-Jira) where we developed the bug/ticketing system specifically to drive our development management process. The two evolved in concert. The result was excellent, and sadly has never been re-achieved with any of the modern tools. My take on this is that somebody was told that the bug system can be used to drive project management (which it can) but then implemented a bug system without any real understanding of what that means or how to achieve it.