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The EU's entire modern tech industry does not even measure up to that of one US company. Dismissals of the EU's inability to compete in tech is why EU citizens

The EU's entire modern tech industry does not even measure up to that of one US company. Dismissals of the EU's inability to compete in tech is why EU citizens have missed out on literally tens of trillions of dollars in economic growth post-2000s. The EU's lack of ability to innovate is becoming a serious problem for the progress of our species as a whole.

scotty79 3y ago
US valuations are simply insane. Oligarchs money looking for an investment vessel inflate share prices. In most cases it has nothing to do with actual value of the companies or their revenue. In US empty company can be "worth" billions for a time.
- pb7 3y ago
  That's what happens when you're a wealthy country with a booming economy and flush with companies that serve the world.
  - scotty79 3y ago
    Not really. That happens when you have concetration of capital in few hands that can do with it whatever they want but there's really not much to do with it. US stock market is analogue of Chinese real estate market. It's full of overpriced crumbling units and overt scams waiting to be exposed. In Europe this capital is dispersed and more often serves the purpose of building infrastructure, increasing prosperity and well being of societies as a whole and developing large number of smaller businesses priced realistically. It's less flashy, but healthier.
    - overstay8930 3y ago
      The European economy is not healthy at all, and is facing an upcoming demographic crisis with a lot of issues with high unemployment and low wages causing brain drain. I mean FFS the damn Euro literally almost became worthless because of the Greek debt crisis. Did people forget how close Europe came to abandoning its own currency?
      - scotty79 3y ago
        Can you recommend some reading on the subject? I don't recall any ideas about abandoning Euro by anyone else but the Greeks, who probably just wanted to print more which would be devastating for them in anything but the short term.
  - berkes 3y ago
    No. That's what happens when there's no social system for pensions. In the US everyone and his dog has to "invest" in the stock market for their older days. In Europe this is happening more and more too, but there's also still a reasonable pension system in most countries that serves this purpose for individuals. There are simply far more investers putting money in already inflated assets in the US than in Europe. Take Tesla vs Volkswagen (or Porsche if you want). VW sells magnitudes more cars worldwide than TSL, even just the electric ones. Their ROI is much higher. And both their innovation is just as flakey at times (compared to e.g. Volvo who remain strong leader in all automotive innovation). Anyone who looks at the solid figures, sees that VW is simply the stronger and more boring company. Yet people bet on the future, in which TSL promises to overtake VW. And then inflates the already inflated bubble some more, praying for that promise to be delivered on. Praying, however, is not a good way to innovate an economy.
    - xvector 3y ago
      You do realize that pensions invest in the market too? 401ks just give you more control over the investment.
      - berkes 3y ago
        Yes, I do. But pension funds invest very different from Jane and Joe for their retirement. To answer equally condescending: I presume you realize that?
        pb7 3y ago
        Take the biggest pension fund in Europe, Norway Government Pension Fund Global with $1.5T AUM: https://www.nbim.no/en/the-fund/investments https://www.nbim.no/en/the-fund/investments Over 70% is invested in equities, the rest mostly in fixed income (bonds). Not a whole lot different than an average 401k invested in a target date fund. But the real zinger: over 33% of the total is invested in US equities alone, with a whopping 47% of all investments being in the US. 11.2% of total investments are in the US technology sector vs a mere 1.6% in European (including non-EU countries like Russia) technology. Truly humbling. Norway doesn't seem to share your opinion on US equities.
geraneum 3y ago
> literally tens of trillions of dollars > ability to innovate Valuation and innovation could be related and could be not depending on the company, industry, fraud, etc. > The EU's lack of ability to innovate Modern American tech products are made of so many different parts, of which a significant portion is made (and designed) in EU, rest in US, Japan, Korea, China, etc.
berkes 3y ago
Yeah. Airbus has proven to be unable to compete and innovate itself into an established market. /S
- scotty79 3y ago
  What has Boeing proven then?
  - berkes 3y ago
    My point was that Airbus has proven to be able to break into an established, near monopolized market through innovation.
    - scotty79 3y ago
      Oh, sorry. I missed the intention behind the /S I didn't know that about Airbus.

scotty79 3y ago

US valuations are simply insane. Oligarchs money looking for an investment vessel inflate share prices. In most cases it has nothing to do with actual value of the companies or their revenue. In US empty company can be "worth" billions for a time.

pb7 3y ago
That's what happens when you're a wealthy country with a booming economy and flush with companies that serve the world.
- scotty79 3y ago
  Not really. That happens when you have concetration of capital in few hands that can do with it whatever they want but there's really not much to do with it. US stock market is analogue of Chinese real estate market. It's full of overpriced crumbling units and overt scams waiting to be exposed. In Europe this capital is dispersed and more often serves the purpose of building infrastructure, increasing prosperity and well being of societies as a whole and developing large number of smaller businesses priced realistically. It's less flashy, but healthier.
  - overstay8930 3y ago
    The European economy is not healthy at all, and is facing an upcoming demographic crisis with a lot of issues with high unemployment and low wages causing brain drain. I mean FFS the damn Euro literally almost became worthless because of the Greek debt crisis. Did people forget how close Europe came to abandoning its own currency?
    - scotty79 3y ago
      Can you recommend some reading on the subject? I don't recall any ideas about abandoning Euro by anyone else but the Greeks, who probably just wanted to print more which would be devastating for them in anything but the short term.
- berkes 3y ago
  No. That's what happens when there's no social system for pensions. In the US everyone and his dog has to "invest" in the stock market for their older days. In Europe this is happening more and more too, but there's also still a reasonable pension system in most countries that serves this purpose for individuals. There are simply far more investers putting money in already inflated assets in the US than in Europe. Take Tesla vs Volkswagen (or Porsche if you want). VW sells magnitudes more cars worldwide than TSL, even just the electric ones. Their ROI is much higher. And both their innovation is just as flakey at times (compared to e.g. Volvo who remain strong leader in all automotive innovation). Anyone who looks at the solid figures, sees that VW is simply the stronger and more boring company. Yet people bet on the future, in which TSL promises to overtake VW. And then inflates the already inflated bubble some more, praying for that promise to be delivered on. Praying, however, is not a good way to innovate an economy.
  - xvector 3y ago
    You do realize that pensions invest in the market too? 401ks just give you more control over the investment.
    - berkes 3y ago
      Yes, I do. But pension funds invest very different from Jane and Joe for their retirement. To answer equally condescending: I presume you realize that?
      - pb7 3y ago
        Take the biggest pension fund in Europe, Norway Government Pension Fund Global with $1.5T AUM: https://www.nbim.no/en/the-fund/investments https://www.nbim.no/en/the-fund/investments Over 70% is invested in equities, the rest mostly in fixed income (bonds). Not a whole lot different than an average 401k invested in a target date fund. But the real zinger: over 33% of the total is invested in US equities alone, with a whopping 47% of all investments being in the US. 11.2% of total investments are in the US technology sector vs a mere 1.6% in European (including non-EU countries like Russia) technology. Truly humbling. Norway doesn't seem to share your opinion on US equities.

geraneum 3y ago

> literally tens of trillions of dollars > ability to innovate Valuation and innovation could be related and could be not depending on the company, industry, fraud, etc. > The EU's lack of ability to innovate Modern American tech products are made of so many different parts, of which a significant portion is made (and designed) in EU, rest in US, Japan, Korea, China, etc.

berkes 3y ago

Yeah. Airbus has proven to be unable to compete and innovate itself into an established market. /S

scotty79 3y ago
What has Boeing proven then?
- berkes 3y ago
  My point was that Airbus has proven to be able to break into an established, near monopolized market through innovation.
  - scotty79 3y ago
    Oh, sorry. I missed the intention behind the /S I didn't know that about Airbus.