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"Bring manufacturing back to America". Is it possible to build a cell phone in the US? I think we should start more basic and work our way up. For example, the

by skrbjc 3y ago

"Bring manufacturing back to America". Is it possible to build a cell phone in the US? I think we should start more basic and work our way up. For example, there isn't a real reason we can't produce all of our domestic iron and steel needs in the USA, but we end up importing a lot right now. Same with aluminum, etc. But this isn't something YC is really going to help with unless they are funding manufacturing and industrial tech that makes it easier/cheaper to set-up and run these types of facilities.

ipaddr 3y ago
Cost. I don't think America should focus on mining raw materials that can be sent elsewhere so cellphones can be made which America will import back at high costs.
Animats 3y ago
The US currently imports only 17% of its steel, mostly from Canada and Mexico. The US also exports steel, but imports are about 4x exports. So the US steel industry is doing OK. 60% of US steel consumption is now from recycled steel. Nucor became the largest US steel manufacturer by making that work.
- bozhark 3y ago
  US Steel is now Japanese, btw
  - lkbm 3y ago
    Depending on the specific concern, I assume what mostly matters is where the facilities are, not who owns the company. (At least so long as it's an ally.)
    - pas 3y ago
      it should be irrelevant who owns it. regulations ought to be robust enough anyway. technology export controls, worker protections (OSHA, business continuity, financial integrity, audits), market protection (no abuse of market power, ie. no dumping no Apple/platform/gatekeeper shenanigans, etc.)
  - HWR_14 3y ago
    Not yet. The federal government could still block it or the acquisition could fall through for other reasons.
- reaperman 3y ago
  It takes (up to) 456.23% import tariffs[0] to achieve that 17%. So you pay china $1 million for some amount of steel (via vietnam) and then pay the us gov $4.56 million for a total cost of $5.56 million. It’s amazing that so many steel companies are still underperforming in the USA seemingly in spite the intense protectionism. 0: https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-us-vietnam-steel-trade-imports-20190703-story.html#:~:text=The%20U.S.%20Commerce%20Department%20imposed,between%20the%20two%20trading%20partners https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-us-vietnam-steel-trad....
  - whatshisface 3y ago
    So, essentially, we can all become factory workers if we're willing to accept a drastic decrease in our standard of living.
- ricardobeat 3y ago
  Is the percentage of steel imports relevant, when most of the metal consumer products are coming from abroad? Simple stuff like pots and pans, cutlery, potato mashers. Then industrial parts. Farm equipment. Eventually, cell phone frames and more sophisticated stuff. I think this is what the parent comment is alluding to.
  - skrbjc 3y ago
    Ywes, but if we have cheap materials here, it makes it more enticing to manufacture here as well.
jaredmclaughlin 3y ago
We import a lot but we make a lot. I made a living supervising the manufacturing of the rolls used to roll steel in mill. We weren't exporting even the majority of the product.
542458 3y ago
You can do advanced electronics manufacturing in North America, it just has tradeoffs - primarily cost and process availability. I work for a company that builds high-end electronics over in Canada; Opinions are my own.
- shiroiushi 3y ago
  Advanced electronics manufacturing never left the US. The problem is that all the consumer-grade stuff left, and what's left is all really high-end military stuff, and is stupidly expensive. It's great if you're a defense contractor building some state-of-the-art weapons system that really needs the performance offered by those process technologies, but if you want to build a simple prototype for your small business, or you want to build some not-so-cutting-edge electronics in high volume for consumers, it just isn't feasible.
  - 542458 3y ago
    We’re not military, but I hear what you’re saying. Generally when I look at the costs of doing stuff onshore vs offshore it’s typically ~2x more expensive to do it here. That blows out any ambitions of competing purely on price pretty quickly for most types of product.

by skrbjc 3y ago

ipaddr 3y ago

Cost. I don't think America should focus on mining raw materials that can be sent elsewhere so cellphones can be made which America will import back at high costs.

Animats 3y ago

The US currently imports only 17% of its steel, mostly from Canada and Mexico. The US also exports steel, but imports are about 4x exports. So the US steel industry is doing OK. 60% of US steel consumption is now from recycled steel. Nucor became the largest US steel manufacturer by making that work.

bozhark 3y ago
US Steel is now Japanese, btw
- lkbm 3y ago
  Depending on the specific concern, I assume what mostly matters is where the facilities are, not who owns the company. (At least so long as it's an ally.)
  - pas 3y ago
    it should be irrelevant who owns it. regulations ought to be robust enough anyway. technology export controls, worker protections (OSHA, business continuity, financial integrity, audits), market protection (no abuse of market power, ie. no dumping no Apple/platform/gatekeeper shenanigans, etc.)
- HWR_14 3y ago
  Not yet. The federal government could still block it or the acquisition could fall through for other reasons.
reaperman 3y ago
It takes (up to) 456.23% import tariffs[0] to achieve that 17%. So you pay china $1 million for some amount of steel (via vietnam) and then pay the us gov $4.56 million for a total cost of $5.56 million. It’s amazing that so many steel companies are still underperforming in the USA seemingly in spite the intense protectionism. 0: https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-us-vietnam-steel-trade-imports-20190703-story.html#:~:text=The%20U.S.%20Commerce%20Department%20imposed,between%20the%20two%20trading%20partners https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-us-vietnam-steel-trad....
- whatshisface 3y ago
  So, essentially, we can all become factory workers if we're willing to accept a drastic decrease in our standard of living.
ricardobeat 3y ago
Is the percentage of steel imports relevant, when most of the metal consumer products are coming from abroad? Simple stuff like pots and pans, cutlery, potato mashers. Then industrial parts. Farm equipment. Eventually, cell phone frames and more sophisticated stuff. I think this is what the parent comment is alluding to.
- skrbjc 3y ago
  Ywes, but if we have cheap materials here, it makes it more enticing to manufacture here as well.

jaredmclaughlin 3y ago

We import a lot but we make a lot. I made a living supervising the manufacturing of the rolls used to roll steel in mill. We weren't exporting even the majority of the product.

542458 3y ago

You can do advanced electronics manufacturing in North America, it just has tradeoffs - primarily cost and process availability. I work for a company that builds high-end electronics over in Canada; Opinions are my own.

shiroiushi 3y ago
Advanced electronics manufacturing never left the US. The problem is that all the consumer-grade stuff left, and what's left is all really high-end military stuff, and is stupidly expensive. It's great if you're a defense contractor building some state-of-the-art weapons system that really needs the performance offered by those process technologies, but if you want to build a simple prototype for your small business, or you want to build some not-so-cutting-edge electronics in high volume for consumers, it just isn't feasible.
- 542458 3y ago
  We’re not military, but I hear what you’re saying. Generally when I look at the costs of doing stuff onshore vs offshore it’s typically ~2x more expensive to do it here. That blows out any ambitions of competing purely on price pretty quickly for most types of product.