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This is the NIMBY of polluting. Everyone can point to other emissions and say "mines only 3%, worry about those other 50% guys over there." when I bet one of th

This is the NIMBY of polluting. Everyone can point to other emissions and say "mines only 3%, worry about those other 50% guys over there." when I bet one of the top "small handful of industries" you're going to point to is something like concrete that is literally making affordable buildings for the peasants to live in while homelessness is already far too high. The real question is what actual reductions you think are easy to make on which particular industries that doesn't make housing, electricity, and heat more expensive for the global median income of $3k, while these people are private jetting to watch a football game in person that's on TV. Because when it comes to 0.5% of emissions, I know I'm going to pick taxing wasteful private jets rather than charge the global poor another $50 they don't have. Not to mention the messaging and optics, ffs look at that thread. Hypocritical private jetting is not how you get people collectively on board to fight climate change. If they have to sacrifice, you do too.

tristor 3y ago
I know it's super in vogue to hate the rich or whatever, but if we want to effectively fight climate change we have to do so strategically, supported by data. The data is pretty clear on this matter, the absolute priority is reducing the carbon footprint of electricity production, the second priority should be reducing the carbon footprint of cargo transport and agriculture, and the third priority should be reducing the carbon footprint of manufacturing. Aligned to each of these is a consistent reduction in how much fossil fuels we extract, especially natural gas which due to pipeline leakage contributes a huge amount of methane into the atmosphere, which is a more potent greenhouse gas than CO2. I am /very/ specifically not doing some sort of whataboutism based fingerpointing to things that affect the poor in order to defend the rich. I don't care about rich and poor, we're all human beings, and we're all currently headed towards an extinction level event for our entire species because people are distracted by stupid things that don't matter and ignoring the data. Your heart bleeding for the global poor is smoke and mirrors in the face of it all. We, as a species, cannot afford to bring everyone to the same standard of living that exists in the West today while combatting climate change. If we're being really blunt, the standard of living in the West must also be reduced. Perhaps if we ever completely get on renewable electricity production and find a way to turn excess energy into removing carbon from the atmosphere we can reassess what it takes to increase the global standard of living, but we're already fucked as it is just doing what we're already doing, expending more resources extracted from the earth to spew more waste into the atmosphere than we already are is an absolute non-starter.
- reducesuffering 3y ago
  My mindset is likely 95% the same as yours. However, it is also important to curtail wasteful private jet emissions, even if electricity and standards of living are bigger priorities. What I'm also trying to get at, is if you want political consensus on tackling climate change (which half of the US electorate doesn't give af about emissions currently), then we need to have better optics and put some self-sacrifice in. This reddit thread is a damning example that you can't tell everyone climate change is going to affect their standard of living, meanwhile "doesn't affect me, I can throw unlimited $ at private jets whenever I need to watch football."
  - phatfish 3y ago
    There was a Bill Gates interview with some guy from the BBC doing a half hour sit down. He asked about the private jets, Bill waffled about having lots of meetings and that his work/investment was to help with projects that would reduce carbon use, etc. etc. You could tell that 1st class on a public airline was below him and that was his red line. We can take his "help" with the private jet, or we can leave it. These are elites that want US to change our behaviour. I'm sure a lot of people would rather drive their car than use public transport, Bill. Maybe you could lead by example...

tristor 3y ago

I know it's super in vogue to hate the rich or whatever, but if we want to effectively fight climate change we have to do so strategically, supported by data. The data is pretty clear on this matter, the absolute priority is reducing the carbon footprint of electricity production, the second priority should be reducing the carbon footprint of cargo transport and agriculture, and the third priority should be reducing the carbon footprint of manufacturing. Aligned to each of these is a consistent reduction in how much fossil fuels we extract, especially natural gas which due to pipeline leakage contributes a huge amount of methane into the atmosphere, which is a more potent greenhouse gas than CO2. I am /very/ specifically not doing some sort of whataboutism based fingerpointing to things that affect the poor in order to defend the rich. I don't care about rich and poor, we're all human beings, and we're all currently headed towards an extinction level event for our entire species because people are distracted by stupid things that don't matter and ignoring the data. Your heart bleeding for the global poor is smoke and mirrors in the face of it all. We, as a species, cannot afford to bring everyone to the same standard of living that exists in the West today while combatting climate change. If we're being really blunt, the standard of living in the West must also be reduced. Perhaps if we ever completely get on renewable electricity production and find a way to turn excess energy into removing carbon from the atmosphere we can reassess what it takes to increase the global standard of living, but we're already fucked as it is just doing what we're already doing, expending more resources extracted from the earth to spew more waste into the atmosphere than we already are is an absolute non-starter.

reducesuffering 3y ago
My mindset is likely 95% the same as yours. However, it is also important to curtail wasteful private jet emissions, even if electricity and standards of living are bigger priorities. What I'm also trying to get at, is if you want political consensus on tackling climate change (which half of the US electorate doesn't give af about emissions currently), then we need to have better optics and put some self-sacrifice in. This reddit thread is a damning example that you can't tell everyone climate change is going to affect their standard of living, meanwhile "doesn't affect me, I can throw unlimited $ at private jets whenever I need to watch football."
- phatfish 3y ago
  There was a Bill Gates interview with some guy from the BBC doing a half hour sit down. He asked about the private jets, Bill waffled about having lots of meetings and that his work/investment was to help with projects that would reduce carbon use, etc. etc. You could tell that 1st class on a public airline was below him and that was his red line. We can take his "help" with the private jet, or we can leave it. These are elites that want US to change our behaviour. I'm sure a lot of people would rather drive their car than use public transport, Bill. Maybe you could lead by example...