4 ms·

Rich people cause climate change by architecting society (just look around). Their private jets don’t matter in the grand scheme of things.

baggy_trough 3y ago
What does that mean?
- saintfire 3y ago
  I would assume by making decisions that push people towards technologies or lifestyles that have massive negative externalities but high profits (e.g. Car culture, unrepairable technology) or lobby for businesses/laws that are net negative for society (e.g. Oil & Gas, Pollution regulations for farming, energy and manufacturing). The private jet attention I think is perfectly valid but is akin to blaming people for their "carbon footprint" when much of that footprint is a choice made on your behalf by not providing/burying alternatives and subsidizing polluters.
  - avgcorrection 3y ago
    > I would assume by making decisions that push people towards technologies or lifestyles that have massive negative externalities but high profits (e.g. Car culture, unrepairable technology) or lobby for businesses/laws that are net negative for society (e.g. Oil & Gas, Pollution regulations for farming, energy and manufacturing). See? “Pushing” and “lifestyles”. Clearly the framing is still centered on the “consumer” (apt word) even when the whole paragraph discusses the role that the rich play. Yes. The rich helped build a country (or countries) of car-dependence. You can’t vote-with-your-wallet for country-wide road networks. Same with suburbs. And high-priced apartments in areas where the jobs are. So you get the so-called suburbia lifestyle which is committed by the so-called consumers.
    - baggy_trough 3y ago
      This lifestyle is very much desired by the middle class so I don't think you can blame the rich for it.
      - avgcorrection 3y ago
        Commuting 1 1/2 hours a day in rush hour traffic because you live in suburbia in order to work in the city center where the “good jobs” are, the great lifestyle dream.
        baggy_trough 3y ago
        as evidenced by revealed preferences, yes.
- abenga 3y ago
  The extremely wealthy (think Koch and friends) probably have done a lot worse by influencing the world to remain dependent on fossil fuels much longer than it should have. If the strides we are making now were made in the 80s, we would be in a far better place.
- avgcorrection 3y ago
  I don’t understand the impasse. Do rich people have power or not? Are we complaining about them affording and using private jets and at the same time not believing that they have a large hand in shaping and ruling society as well? Well I’m assuming that we are complaining about all the rich people and not just spoiled trust fund kids.

baggy_trough 3y ago

What does that mean?

saintfire 3y ago
I would assume by making decisions that push people towards technologies or lifestyles that have massive negative externalities but high profits (e.g. Car culture, unrepairable technology) or lobby for businesses/laws that are net negative for society (e.g. Oil & Gas, Pollution regulations for farming, energy and manufacturing). The private jet attention I think is perfectly valid but is akin to blaming people for their "carbon footprint" when much of that footprint is a choice made on your behalf by not providing/burying alternatives and subsidizing polluters.
- avgcorrection 3y ago
  > I would assume by making decisions that push people towards technologies or lifestyles that have massive negative externalities but high profits (e.g. Car culture, unrepairable technology) or lobby for businesses/laws that are net negative for society (e.g. Oil & Gas, Pollution regulations for farming, energy and manufacturing). See? “Pushing” and “lifestyles”. Clearly the framing is still centered on the “consumer” (apt word) even when the whole paragraph discusses the role that the rich play. Yes. The rich helped build a country (or countries) of car-dependence. You can’t vote-with-your-wallet for country-wide road networks. Same with suburbs. And high-priced apartments in areas where the jobs are. So you get the so-called suburbia lifestyle which is committed by the so-called consumers.
  - baggy_trough 3y ago
    This lifestyle is very much desired by the middle class so I don't think you can blame the rich for it.
    - avgcorrection 3y ago
      Commuting 1 1/2 hours a day in rush hour traffic because you live in suburbia in order to work in the city center where the “good jobs” are, the great lifestyle dream.
      - baggy_trough 3y ago
        as evidenced by revealed preferences, yes.
abenga 3y ago
The extremely wealthy (think Koch and friends) probably have done a lot worse by influencing the world to remain dependent on fossil fuels much longer than it should have. If the strides we are making now were made in the 80s, we would be in a far better place.
avgcorrection 3y ago
I don’t understand the impasse. Do rich people have power or not? Are we complaining about them affording and using private jets and at the same time not believing that they have a large hand in shaping and ruling society as well? Well I’m assuming that we are complaining about all the rich people and not just spoiled trust fund kids.