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> We all know that Meta is capable of neither designing nor manufacturing Apple Vision Pro According to what? What limitation is there that stops Meta engineer

by _gabe_ 3y ago

> We all know that Meta is capable of neither designing nor manufacturing Apple Vision Pro According to what? What limitation is there that stops Meta engineers from being able to do this?

zerohp 3y ago
John Carmack had some things to say about it: https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2022/12/17/john-carmack-quits-meta-has-traditionally-harsh-words-on-the-way-out/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2022/12/17/john-carma... EDIT: direct link https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=pfbid0iPixEvPJQGzNa6t2x6HUL5TYqfmKGqSgfkBg6QaTyHF5frXQi7eLGxC7uPQv5U5jl&id=100006735798590 https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=pfbid0iPix...
- sgift 3y ago
  Having read it at the time and now again I'd be surprised if Apple would do any better in his performance metrics. Big companies are, almost by definition, slow. The breakneck speed he wants to see will never happen in a company with thousands of people, thousands of opinions and many layers of management. So, while that is a sad reminder that things could be far better in theory, I don't see how it supports that Meta couldn't produce a Vision Pro if they wanted to.
thisarticle 3y ago
Silicon for one. The M2 is miles ahead in terms of performance (and heat) than anything Qualcomm has to offer.
- partiallypro 3y ago
  This won't always be the case; people act like this is set in stone for decades to come. It might not even be true in 3-4 years.
  - woodada 3y ago
    It's unfortunately far, far more true than whatever lead Meta still has over Apple on the VR headset side. Also it's not just the chip itself, but moreso the whole hardware-sofrware vertical integration. Despite being a decade-long Apple-hater, ever since I got an M2 max macbook from work I simply have never touched my Windows/Linux Thinkpads again. The difference in user experience isn't even on a generational level, but more of a I-can't-imagine-how-Apple's-competitors-can-begin-to-close-this-gap level. Sadly I think all this talk of Quest-vs-AVP war is just an illusion, the outcome is very much preordained at this point.
- kjkjadksj 3y ago
  Its tsmcs chip not apples though, anyone can up and order something of those sort of specs from them and meta has plenty of money to wave around at a crowded bar for attention.
  - doctoboggan 3y ago
    TSMC is a fab, not a chip designer. Apple designed their own chips with in-house engineering talent. Due to how the silicon supply chain works no-one but TSMC can make those chips so everyone needs to use them. Also Meta can't just waive around money and get the most advanced chips; apple has bought out all the production for some time.
    - kjkjadksj 3y ago
      Amd waived around enough money to get a big order of 3nm too and they aren’t even big scary nvidia but the underdogs in this space.
  - hbn 3y ago
    You really think if it was that easy to compete with Apple's SoCs, Google wouldn't have done it long ago for the Pixels? Or someone in the Android space would step in to compete with Qualcomm's Snapdragon chips? Samsung hasn't been able to do it for years with their Exynos line.
    - kjkjadksj 3y ago
      Looking at tsmc’s zen 5 they just sold to Amd I think its certainly possible.
  - threeseed 3y ago
    > anyone can up and order something Can you send me the link for this and do you know if I can also order my own custom 4090 GPU as well. I am thinking I might beat Nvidia and Apple at their game.
    - 3y ago
- _gabe_ 3y ago
  The engineers at Apple aren’t somehow imbued with any sort of special intellect that the engineers at Meta lack to do the same thing. And to be clear here, I’m no fan of Meta. But, in echoing @laserlight here, let’s not pretend that the engineers at Meta are any less capable than the engineers at Apple. There are plenty of brilliant engineers in both companies.
  - r00fus 3y ago
    It's not intellect. It's organization. Why does the US still not have universal healthcare? Europe/China aren't somehow smarter or "health geniuses" - they just put in the effort and made it a priority to provide a well-functioning service.

by _gabe_ 3y ago

> We all know that Meta is capable of neither designing nor manufacturing Apple Vision Pro According to what? What limitation is there that stops Meta engineers from being able to do this?

zerohp 3y ago

John Carmack had some things to say about it: https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2022/12/17/john-carmack-quits-meta-has-traditionally-harsh-words-on-the-way-out/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2022/12/17/john-carma... EDIT: direct link https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=pfbid0iPixEvPJQGzNa6t2x6HUL5TYqfmKGqSgfkBg6QaTyHF5frXQi7eLGxC7uPQv5U5jl&id=100006735798590 https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=pfbid0iPix...

sgift 3y ago
Having read it at the time and now again I'd be surprised if Apple would do any better in his performance metrics. Big companies are, almost by definition, slow. The breakneck speed he wants to see will never happen in a company with thousands of people, thousands of opinions and many layers of management. So, while that is a sad reminder that things could be far better in theory, I don't see how it supports that Meta couldn't produce a Vision Pro if they wanted to.

thisarticle 3y ago

Silicon for one. The M2 is miles ahead in terms of performance (and heat) than anything Qualcomm has to offer.

partiallypro 3y ago
This won't always be the case; people act like this is set in stone for decades to come. It might not even be true in 3-4 years.
- woodada 3y ago
  It's unfortunately far, far more true than whatever lead Meta still has over Apple on the VR headset side. Also it's not just the chip itself, but moreso the whole hardware-sofrware vertical integration. Despite being a decade-long Apple-hater, ever since I got an M2 max macbook from work I simply have never touched my Windows/Linux Thinkpads again. The difference in user experience isn't even on a generational level, but more of a I-can't-imagine-how-Apple's-competitors-can-begin-to-close-this-gap level. Sadly I think all this talk of Quest-vs-AVP war is just an illusion, the outcome is very much preordained at this point.
kjkjadksj 3y ago
Its tsmcs chip not apples though, anyone can up and order something of those sort of specs from them and meta has plenty of money to wave around at a crowded bar for attention.
- doctoboggan 3y ago
  TSMC is a fab, not a chip designer. Apple designed their own chips with in-house engineering talent. Due to how the silicon supply chain works no-one but TSMC can make those chips so everyone needs to use them. Also Meta can't just waive around money and get the most advanced chips; apple has bought out all the production for some time.
  - kjkjadksj 3y ago
    Amd waived around enough money to get a big order of 3nm too and they aren’t even big scary nvidia but the underdogs in this space.
- hbn 3y ago
  You really think if it was that easy to compete with Apple's SoCs, Google wouldn't have done it long ago for the Pixels? Or someone in the Android space would step in to compete with Qualcomm's Snapdragon chips? Samsung hasn't been able to do it for years with their Exynos line.
  - kjkjadksj 3y ago
    Looking at tsmc’s zen 5 they just sold to Amd I think its certainly possible.
- threeseed 3y ago
  > anyone can up and order something Can you send me the link for this and do you know if I can also order my own custom 4090 GPU as well. I am thinking I might beat Nvidia and Apple at their game.
  - 3y ago
_gabe_ 3y ago
The engineers at Apple aren’t somehow imbued with any sort of special intellect that the engineers at Meta lack to do the same thing. And to be clear here, I’m no fan of Meta. But, in echoing @laserlight here, let’s not pretend that the engineers at Meta are any less capable than the engineers at Apple. There are plenty of brilliant engineers in both companies.
- r00fus 3y ago
  It's not intellect. It's organization. Why does the US still not have universal healthcare? Europe/China aren't somehow smarter or "health geniuses" - they just put in the effort and made it a priority to provide a well-functioning service.