7 ms·

That’s it? One noteworthy company for a population of 440M?

by pb7 3y ago

berkes 3y ago
Obviously not. There are tons of large companies, many of which are often misread as American, because they are listed on the Nasdaq or another US exchange. Many EU companies have far higher revenues than their US counterparts (Airbus, Volkswagen, Alstom), are boring but crucial (Heidelberg, DTE) or not easily recognised (Novo Nordisk, Unilever). Even in tech, there's a lot of interesting ones: Booking.com, elastic search, takeaway (aka GrubHub), Adyen, for example are all Dutch. There's or was, Spotify, Skype, SoundCloud, Zalando, Mojang, Shazam and so on. Just be a bit more curious and less preoccupied and you'll see there's plenty going on in Europe. And don't forget that companies can be great and big and multinationals even if they aren't present in the US.
- xvector 3y ago
  The EU's entire modern tech industry does not even measure up to that of one US company. Dismissals of the EU's inability to compete in tech is why EU citizens have missed out on literally tens of trillions of dollars in economic growth post-2000s. The EU's lack of ability to innovate is becoming a serious problem for the progress of our species as a whole.
  - scotty79 3y ago
    US valuations are simply insane. Oligarchs money looking for an investment vessel inflate share prices. In most cases it has nothing to do with actual value of the companies or their revenue. In US empty company can be "worth" billions for a time.
    - pb7 3y ago
      That's what happens when you're a wealthy country with a booming economy and flush with companies that serve the world.
      - scotty79 3y ago
        Not really. That happens when you have concetration of capital in few hands that can do with it whatever they want but there's really not much to do with it. US stock market is analogue of Chinese real estate market. It's full of overpriced crumbling units and overt scams waiting to be exposed. In Europe this capital is dispersed and more often serves the purpose of building infrastructure, increasing prosperity and well being of societies as a whole and developing large number of smaller businesses priced realistically. It's less flashy, but healthier.
        overstay8930 3y ago
        The European economy is not healthy at all, and is facing an upcoming demographic crisis with a lot of issues with high unemployment and low wages causing brain drain. I mean FFS the damn Euro literally almost became worthless because of the Greek debt crisis. Did people forget how close Europe came to abandoning its own currency?
        scotty79 3y ago
        Can you recommend some reading on the subject? I don't recall any ideas about abandoning Euro by anyone else but the Greeks, who probably just wanted to print more which would be devastating for them in anything but the short term.
      - berkes 3y ago
        No. That's what happens when there's no social system for pensions. In the US everyone and his dog has to "invest" in the stock market for their older days. In Europe this is happening more and more too, but there's also still a reasonable pension system in most countries that serves this purpose for individuals. There are simply far more investers putting money in already inflated assets in the US than in Europe. Take Tesla vs Volkswagen (or Porsche if you want). VW sells magnitudes more cars worldwide than TSL, even just the electric ones. Their ROI is much higher. And both their innovation is just as flakey at times (compared to e.g. Volvo who remain strong leader in all automotive innovation). Anyone who looks at the solid figures, sees that VW is simply the stronger and more boring company. Yet people bet on the future, in which TSL promises to overtake VW. And then inflates the already inflated bubble some more, praying for that promise to be delivered on. Praying, however, is not a good way to innovate an economy.
  - geraneum 3y ago
    > literally tens of trillions of dollars > ability to innovate Valuation and innovation could be related and could be not depending on the company, industry, fraud, etc. > The EU's lack of ability to innovate Modern American tech products are made of so many different parts, of which a significant portion is made (and designed) in EU, rest in US, Japan, Korea, China, etc.
  - berkes 3y ago
    Yeah. Airbus has proven to be unable to compete and innovate itself into an established market. /S
    - scotty79 3y ago
      What has Boeing proven then?
      - berkes 3y ago
        My point was that Airbus has proven to be able to break into an established, near monopolized market through innovation.
        scotty79 3y ago
        Oh, sorry. I missed the intention behind the /S I didn't know that about Airbus.
corford 3y ago
If we're talking chips, ARM is also quite noteworthy... FinTech is pretty awesome in Europe too: Wise, Revolut, Klarna, Adyen are all unicorns/decacorns.
alkonaut 3y ago
There are tons of large european tech companies. But we forget that because most of them are 50 or 100 years old.

That’s it? One noteworthy company for a population of 440M?

by pb7 3y ago

That’s it? One noteworthy company for a population of 440M?

Obviously not. There are tons of large companies, many of which are often misread as American, because they are listed on the Nasdaq or another US exchange. Many EU companies have far higher revenues than their US counterparts (Airbus, Volkswagen, Alstom), are boring but crucial (Heidelberg, DTE) or not easily recognised (Novo Nordisk, Unilever). Even in tech, there's a lot of interesting ones: Booking.com, elastic search, takeaway (aka GrubHub), Adyen, for example are all Dutch. There's or was, Spotify, Skype, SoundCloud, Zalando, Mojang, Shazam and so on. Just be a bit more curious and less preoccupied and you'll see there's plenty going on in Europe. And don't forget that companies can be great and big and multinationals even if they aren't present in the US.

xvector 3y ago
The EU's entire modern tech industry does not even measure up to that of one US company. Dismissals of the EU's inability to compete in tech is why EU citizens have missed out on literally tens of trillions of dollars in economic growth post-2000s. The EU's lack of ability to innovate is becoming a serious problem for the progress of our species as a whole.
- scotty79 3y ago
  US valuations are simply insane. Oligarchs money looking for an investment vessel inflate share prices. In most cases it has nothing to do with actual value of the companies or their revenue. In US empty company can be "worth" billions for a time.
  - pb7 3y ago
    That's what happens when you're a wealthy country with a booming economy and flush with companies that serve the world.
    - scotty79 3y ago
      Not really. That happens when you have concetration of capital in few hands that can do with it whatever they want but there's really not much to do with it. US stock market is analogue of Chinese real estate market. It's full of overpriced crumbling units and overt scams waiting to be exposed. In Europe this capital is dispersed and more often serves the purpose of building infrastructure, increasing prosperity and well being of societies as a whole and developing large number of smaller businesses priced realistically. It's less flashy, but healthier.
      - overstay8930 3y ago
        The European economy is not healthy at all, and is facing an upcoming demographic crisis with a lot of issues with high unemployment and low wages causing brain drain. I mean FFS the damn Euro literally almost became worthless because of the Greek debt crisis. Did people forget how close Europe came to abandoning its own currency?
        scotty79 3y ago
        Can you recommend some reading on the subject? I don't recall any ideas about abandoning Euro by anyone else but the Greeks, who probably just wanted to print more which would be devastating for them in anything but the short term.
    - berkes 3y ago
      No. That's what happens when there's no social system for pensions. In the US everyone and his dog has to "invest" in the stock market for their older days. In Europe this is happening more and more too, but there's also still a reasonable pension system in most countries that serves this purpose for individuals. There are simply far more investers putting money in already inflated assets in the US than in Europe. Take Tesla vs Volkswagen (or Porsche if you want). VW sells magnitudes more cars worldwide than TSL, even just the electric ones. Their ROI is much higher. And both their innovation is just as flakey at times (compared to e.g. Volvo who remain strong leader in all automotive innovation). Anyone who looks at the solid figures, sees that VW is simply the stronger and more boring company. Yet people bet on the future, in which TSL promises to overtake VW. And then inflates the already inflated bubble some more, praying for that promise to be delivered on. Praying, however, is not a good way to innovate an economy.
- geraneum 3y ago
  > literally tens of trillions of dollars > ability to innovate Valuation and innovation could be related and could be not depending on the company, industry, fraud, etc. > The EU's lack of ability to innovate Modern American tech products are made of so many different parts, of which a significant portion is made (and designed) in EU, rest in US, Japan, Korea, China, etc.
- berkes 3y ago
  Yeah. Airbus has proven to be unable to compete and innovate itself into an established market. /S
  - scotty79 3y ago
    What has Boeing proven then?
    - berkes 3y ago
      My point was that Airbus has proven to be able to break into an established, near monopolized market through innovation.
      - scotty79 3y ago
        Oh, sorry. I missed the intention behind the /S I didn't know that about Airbus.

corford 3y ago

If we're talking chips, ARM is also quite noteworthy... FinTech is pretty awesome in Europe too: Wise, Revolut, Klarna, Adyen are all unicorns/decacorns.

alkonaut 3y ago

There are tons of large european tech companies. But we forget that because most of them are 50 or 100 years old.