3 ms·

The longer there are standardized classes like ap and standardized tests, the better the gpa will be in future years. This is because programs and extracurricul

The longer there are standardized classes like ap and standardized tests, the better the gpa will be in future years. This is because programs and extracurriculars continue to optimize for these things. Programs and extracurriculars that don’t exist in college. Is the student from 2023 actually more prepared than the one from 2013 for college? Hard to say because this isn’t exactly what is being optimized or controlled for. Nor is it even clear whether being “prepared for college” by whatever metric that is at 17 is relevant to your academic performance in the next few years or job performance going forward.

alephnerd 3y ago
> there are standardized classes like ap and standardized tests, the better the gpa will be in future years Of course, and this is the point - it had made college freshman more college ready. AP Coursework is equivalent to the content taught in the 101 course of just about every UC or CC. Doesn't matter if it's AP Chem/Chem101, AP Calc ABC/Calc1-2, AP US History/US101, etc. The fact that it has become normalized for high schoolers to take first-year level coursework in high school points to younger high schoolers cohorts being better prepared for 4 year programs compared to older cohorts. > the student from 2023 actually more prepared than the one from 2013 for college There is a direct correlation between High School performance and College performance [0][1]. And UCs do take into account high school level variability [2] [0] - https://ies.ed.gov/ncee/rel/Products/Region/northwest/Publication/3835 https://ies.ed.gov/ncee/rel/Products/Region/northwest/Public... [1] - https://consortium.uchicago.edu/publications/high-school-GPAs-and-ACT-scores-as-predictors-of-college-completion https://consortium.uchicago.edu/publications/high-school-GPA... [2] - https://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/how-to-apply/applying-as-a-freshman/how-applications-are-reviewed.html https://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/how-to-apply/ap...
- kjkjadksj 3y ago
  People are optimizing for the wrong things. They take these and get credit for their first year classes that would have probably been not so difficult anyhow. Then they get destroyed in the next stage, for my major it was organic chemistry that handed the 50% marks like candy and there was nothing a high school could offer you to prepare for that. How could they even, nothing they offer demands you spend 20 hours a week outside of class scribbling reactions like a mad man in a cold library basement, but thats literally what needs to happen to do well. Its a total whiplash but even this is still removed from learning how to actually work in the field, experience you can’t really get unless you can get a professor to let you work under them. Who goes on to the next stage with ease is now who lucked out here during the slog and got some extra experience from time they could afford to lose.
  - alephnerd 3y ago
    > They take these and get credit for their first year classes that would have probably been not so difficult anyhow You need to take the AP Exam and score a 5 to get full credit for these classes at the college level. If you did not a score a 5 on the AP Exam, you aren't getting out of the intro class at the UC or occasionally CSU level. > the 50% marks like candy I don't think you're American based on that statement alone. It sounds Indian or British - especially because in the US a D- is 60%, a C- is 70%, and so on, and we don't use the word "marks", and you need a C- average to graduate from a UC. > even this is still removed from learning how to actually work in the field, experience you can’t really get unless you can get a professor to let you work under them Idk about where you are in the Commonwealth, but internships have been normalized in the US since the 2010s. Almost everyone in a decent program (aka every UC - even Merced) can land an internship or research experience after finishing lower div requirements
    - jeffbee 3y ago
      > If you did not a score a 5 on the AP Exam, you aren't getting out of the intro class at the UC or occasionally CSU level. At some UCs, and in some subjects, you can get more credit for a 5, but in some subjects you get full credit for a 3, even at Berkeley. It depends on whether the test is relevant to the main topic of your university studies, or tangential to them. A 3, 4, or 5 on either AP Calculus exam will get you entirely out of having to study math at Berkeley in the College of Letters and Sciences.
      - alephnerd 3y ago
        > but in some subjects you get full credit for a 3 Fair point! That said, you get full credit but it won't exempt you from major related coursework in most cases. Circa a few years ago, I think AP Lit had the best RoI for AP Class to Cal Class Credit as they took you out of the intro writing classes in LAS. > A 3, 4, or 5 on either AP Calculus exam will get you entirely out of having to study math at Berkeley in the College of Letters and Sciences. Quant Reasoning/Math1a (intro calc) yes, but you'd still need to take Math1b/53/54/55 depending on your major in L&S. If you're an English major it probably doesn't make sense to do anything beyond 1a, but if you're a STEM major then 53/54/55 are de facto requirements and they will require 1b. Every other AP required a 4 minimum at Cal

alephnerd 3y ago

> there are standardized classes like ap and standardized tests, the better the gpa will be in future years Of course, and this is the point - it had made college freshman more college ready. AP Coursework is equivalent to the content taught in the 101 course of just about every UC or CC. Doesn't matter if it's AP Chem/Chem101, AP Calc ABC/Calc1-2, AP US History/US101, etc. The fact that it has become normalized for high schoolers to take first-year level coursework in high school points to younger high schoolers cohorts being better prepared for 4 year programs compared to older cohorts. > the student from 2023 actually more prepared than the one from 2013 for college There is a direct correlation between High School performance and College performance [0][1]. And UCs do take into account high school level variability [2] [0] - https://ies.ed.gov/ncee/rel/Products/Region/northwest/Publication/3835 https://ies.ed.gov/ncee/rel/Products/Region/northwest/Public... [1] - https://consortium.uchicago.edu/publications/high-school-GPAs-and-ACT-scores-as-predictors-of-college-completion https://consortium.uchicago.edu/publications/high-school-GPA... [2] - https://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/how-to-apply/applying-as-a-freshman/how-applications-are-reviewed.html https://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/how-to-apply/ap...

kjkjadksj 3y ago
People are optimizing for the wrong things. They take these and get credit for their first year classes that would have probably been not so difficult anyhow. Then they get destroyed in the next stage, for my major it was organic chemistry that handed the 50% marks like candy and there was nothing a high school could offer you to prepare for that. How could they even, nothing they offer demands you spend 20 hours a week outside of class scribbling reactions like a mad man in a cold library basement, but thats literally what needs to happen to do well. Its a total whiplash but even this is still removed from learning how to actually work in the field, experience you can’t really get unless you can get a professor to let you work under them. Who goes on to the next stage with ease is now who lucked out here during the slog and got some extra experience from time they could afford to lose.
- alephnerd 3y ago
  > They take these and get credit for their first year classes that would have probably been not so difficult anyhow You need to take the AP Exam and score a 5 to get full credit for these classes at the college level. If you did not a score a 5 on the AP Exam, you aren't getting out of the intro class at the UC or occasionally CSU level. > the 50% marks like candy I don't think you're American based on that statement alone. It sounds Indian or British - especially because in the US a D- is 60%, a C- is 70%, and so on, and we don't use the word "marks", and you need a C- average to graduate from a UC. > even this is still removed from learning how to actually work in the field, experience you can’t really get unless you can get a professor to let you work under them Idk about where you are in the Commonwealth, but internships have been normalized in the US since the 2010s. Almost everyone in a decent program (aka every UC - even Merced) can land an internship or research experience after finishing lower div requirements
  - jeffbee 3y ago
    > If you did not a score a 5 on the AP Exam, you aren't getting out of the intro class at the UC or occasionally CSU level. At some UCs, and in some subjects, you can get more credit for a 5, but in some subjects you get full credit for a 3, even at Berkeley. It depends on whether the test is relevant to the main topic of your university studies, or tangential to them. A 3, 4, or 5 on either AP Calculus exam will get you entirely out of having to study math at Berkeley in the College of Letters and Sciences.
    - alephnerd 3y ago
      > but in some subjects you get full credit for a 3 Fair point! That said, you get full credit but it won't exempt you from major related coursework in most cases. Circa a few years ago, I think AP Lit had the best RoI for AP Class to Cal Class Credit as they took you out of the intro writing classes in LAS. > A 3, 4, or 5 on either AP Calculus exam will get you entirely out of having to study math at Berkeley in the College of Letters and Sciences. Quant Reasoning/Math1a (intro calc) yes, but you'd still need to take Math1b/53/54/55 depending on your major in L&S. If you're an English major it probably doesn't make sense to do anything beyond 1a, but if you're a STEM major then 53/54/55 are de facto requirements and they will require 1b. Every other AP required a 4 minimum at Cal