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The argument against ABA is exactly that it looks like it works from the perspective of the (neurotypical) parents, but the kids feel like they're basically tor

The argument against ABA is exactly that it looks like it works from the perspective of the (neurotypical) parents, but the kids feel like they're basically tortured until they behave like their parents and society expects them to. To be something they aren't, be forced in to a box where you just don't fit, until they do. I haven't gone through official ABA therapy but I had extremely ABA-like childhood and I'd have to agree. When I was kid and didn't know what's different about me I used to think at least there's probably millions like me who don't have to go through that. When I found out about my autism and later ABA, I was horrified to know it's official therapy. But I'm sure there's autistic people who'd disagree with me.

purpleblue 3y ago
My friend's son, who is low-functioning, doesn't talk. He grunts. He is 11 and is a big child and has become increasingly violent. When he was smaller the violence was manageable, but he is over 100 lbs and strong. He sleeps about 3 hours a day, wakes up at 1am every night and screams at the top of his lungs until someone else wakes up. There is no way he can function without ABA therapy which he has been doing since he was 5, because that's when the Canadian government started to cover part of the costs. My friends are close to poverty levels because ABA therapy is over $80,000 per year and he has to pay about half of those costs. The idea that someone such as yourself, would come in and say that this kid is being "forced into a box" is so offensive, it's astonishing that someone could say that. Without ABA therapy he wouldn't be able to be brought outside in the world. My friend's greatest fear is that he and his wife will die and no one will take care of him, and he will either be incarcerated or homeless for the rest of his life. ABA therapy is the ONLY thing that works, and saying that it should be banned is disgusting.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- YeGoblynQueenne 3y ago
  Isn't there a kinder way to say all this?
- smeej 3y ago
  I think this article does a good job of trying to bring in the voices of some of those parents. Like, it's one thing for an autistic teenager who is otherwise getting by in a main stream high school to say, "I don't want your stupid noisy dances with the flashing lights and the smelly people all bumping into each other. Why can't you leave me alone about it, or just let me organize board game night as an alternative in a different part of the school?" It's quite another for someone to have such profound difficulty communicating that they smash their head against walls and cause themselves brain damage trying to get some point across. It seems like it should be entirely valid to have different treatments for these different cases, and it does seem very unfair for people having the first kind to universalize their own experience to include people having the second kind.
logiduck 3y ago
I have had exposure to ABA but mostly through the lens of the parents with children using ABA and it was mostly positive. Being able to take their kids out and put them in the car for the first time without a breakdown after starting therapy was a major achievement in their eyes. I am just curious though about what you limits are? Isn't everyone being put into a box? Isn't that just being part of society? I don't know what your experiences are, but probably isn't there a spectrum of ABA from good to bad just like there is a spectrum of all types of interventions and parenting from being overbearing to too lenient? Just genuinely interested in that it seems like being part of society unless you are part of the 1% has a big aspect of conformity and "fitting in" to society even if that isn't what you want to do. That historically to me has just been known as growing up.
- bayesianbot 3y ago
  I think a lot of traits or experiences of autistic people are found in many neurotypicals as well, but the levels/intensity actually make it completely different. I definitely see your society box, but it can be quite different experience when the things you're hiding are main part of your being, brain and thoughts, for all your childhood. I only have my experience - it made me extremely stressed for over a decade. It felt like anything I wanted to be or do was probably wrong in some way that I could never predict, as often things I thought would be perfectly fine turned out to be wrong, often for reasons that I really couldn't understand why or base general rules on. I was basically scared around the clock that somebody catches me behaving in wrong way, and I was always prepared to stop everything and start masking - looking like and doing things my peers expect me to. I went from talkative happy kid to extremely quiet person who probably always looked like I'm ready to soil my pants. I spoke really little for a ~decade, feeling like every time I'd open my mouth I'll say something wrong and it can be used against me. Later on I stayed the nights awake quiet in a dark room and slept when other people were home and awake, because then I could maximize the time being just myself without worrying about who I was expected to be. I pretty much still don't have a good relationship with my parents, they've never known who I am as I just learnt to hide myself. I think they're good parents, they just didn't know what to do with different kind of kid and made some terrible choices in a conservative time and place where having a "non-normal" kid was not acceptable outcome. And I wasn't really good at communicating what I was feeling or the kind of damage it was doing to me. I know I took it in a really hard way, I knew even then. As autistic person I can have quite intense feelings. Like I said I'm sure there's autistic people who have the opposite opinion and experience. But I know I'm wasn't some special case, I'm quite sure there's a lot of trauma associated with a lot of ABA'd children. I can definitely understand the parent's viewpoint and also that there's wide spectrum of completely different cases, but I really don't think this should be ABA-parents vs autistic kids disagreement, we both would have a better life if we'd have some better therapies for autistic people - I just think the best starting point would be understanding what causes the stress/anxiety/discomfort/meltdowns and trying to fix the underlying issues, not from trying to hide the symptoms like we're praying gay away. The goal should be a child with as good, healthy life as possible, not some expected behavior. Maybe ABA style therapy is good for some and I expressed myself in kinda extreme way - there's some history behind that, that I really haven't fully processed in a healthy way yet - but parents should understand when it's used in the wrong way or wrong cases it can go really bad, it's not something that should be just done because good options are lacking.
giantg2 3y ago
"The argument against ABA is exactly that it looks like it works from the perspective of the (neurotypical) parents, but the kids feel like they're basically tortured until they behave like their parents and society expects them to. To be something they aren't, be forced in to a box where you just don't fit, until they do." That's because it was misapplied - it's not about fitting in. When parents use this to make their kid "normal" of course it will be like torture. This is supposed to be for getting people to a survivable level, eg non-verbal improving to "tooth hurts". If you're already to the level of getting by mostly independently, this is not the correct intervention. It's like prescribing an opioid for a minor ache. Opioids get misused and demonized, but they do have valid applications.

purpleblue 3y ago

My friend's son, who is low-functioning, doesn't talk. He grunts. He is 11 and is a big child and has become increasingly violent. When he was smaller the violence was manageable, but he is over 100 lbs and strong. He sleeps about 3 hours a day, wakes up at 1am every night and screams at the top of his lungs until someone else wakes up. There is no way he can function without ABA therapy which he has been doing since he was 5, because that's when the Canadian government started to cover part of the costs. My friends are close to poverty levels because ABA therapy is over $80,000 per year and he has to pay about half of those costs. The idea that someone such as yourself, would come in and say that this kid is being "forced into a box" is so offensive, it's astonishing that someone could say that. Without ABA therapy he wouldn't be able to be brought outside in the world. My friend's greatest fear is that he and his wife will die and no one will take care of him, and he will either be incarcerated or homeless for the rest of his life. ABA therapy is the ONLY thing that works, and saying that it should be banned is disgusting.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
YeGoblynQueenne 3y ago
Isn't there a kinder way to say all this?
smeej 3y ago
I think this article does a good job of trying to bring in the voices of some of those parents. Like, it's one thing for an autistic teenager who is otherwise getting by in a main stream high school to say, "I don't want your stupid noisy dances with the flashing lights and the smelly people all bumping into each other. Why can't you leave me alone about it, or just let me organize board game night as an alternative in a different part of the school?" It's quite another for someone to have such profound difficulty communicating that they smash their head against walls and cause themselves brain damage trying to get some point across. It seems like it should be entirely valid to have different treatments for these different cases, and it does seem very unfair for people having the first kind to universalize their own experience to include people having the second kind.

logiduck 3y ago

I have had exposure to ABA but mostly through the lens of the parents with children using ABA and it was mostly positive. Being able to take their kids out and put them in the car for the first time without a breakdown after starting therapy was a major achievement in their eyes. I am just curious though about what you limits are? Isn't everyone being put into a box? Isn't that just being part of society? I don't know what your experiences are, but probably isn't there a spectrum of ABA from good to bad just like there is a spectrum of all types of interventions and parenting from being overbearing to too lenient? Just genuinely interested in that it seems like being part of society unless you are part of the 1% has a big aspect of conformity and "fitting in" to society even if that isn't what you want to do. That historically to me has just been known as growing up.

bayesianbot 3y ago
I think a lot of traits or experiences of autistic people are found in many neurotypicals as well, but the levels/intensity actually make it completely different. I definitely see your society box, but it can be quite different experience when the things you're hiding are main part of your being, brain and thoughts, for all your childhood. I only have my experience - it made me extremely stressed for over a decade. It felt like anything I wanted to be or do was probably wrong in some way that I could never predict, as often things I thought would be perfectly fine turned out to be wrong, often for reasons that I really couldn't understand why or base general rules on. I was basically scared around the clock that somebody catches me behaving in wrong way, and I was always prepared to stop everything and start masking - looking like and doing things my peers expect me to. I went from talkative happy kid to extremely quiet person who probably always looked like I'm ready to soil my pants. I spoke really little for a ~decade, feeling like every time I'd open my mouth I'll say something wrong and it can be used against me. Later on I stayed the nights awake quiet in a dark room and slept when other people were home and awake, because then I could maximize the time being just myself without worrying about who I was expected to be. I pretty much still don't have a good relationship with my parents, they've never known who I am as I just learnt to hide myself. I think they're good parents, they just didn't know what to do with different kind of kid and made some terrible choices in a conservative time and place where having a "non-normal" kid was not acceptable outcome. And I wasn't really good at communicating what I was feeling or the kind of damage it was doing to me. I know I took it in a really hard way, I knew even then. As autistic person I can have quite intense feelings. Like I said I'm sure there's autistic people who have the opposite opinion and experience. But I know I'm wasn't some special case, I'm quite sure there's a lot of trauma associated with a lot of ABA'd children. I can definitely understand the parent's viewpoint and also that there's wide spectrum of completely different cases, but I really don't think this should be ABA-parents vs autistic kids disagreement, we both would have a better life if we'd have some better therapies for autistic people - I just think the best starting point would be understanding what causes the stress/anxiety/discomfort/meltdowns and trying to fix the underlying issues, not from trying to hide the symptoms like we're praying gay away. The goal should be a child with as good, healthy life as possible, not some expected behavior. Maybe ABA style therapy is good for some and I expressed myself in kinda extreme way - there's some history behind that, that I really haven't fully processed in a healthy way yet - but parents should understand when it's used in the wrong way or wrong cases it can go really bad, it's not something that should be just done because good options are lacking.

giantg2 3y ago

"The argument against ABA is exactly that it looks like it works from the perspective of the (neurotypical) parents, but the kids feel like they're basically tortured until they behave like their parents and society expects them to. To be something they aren't, be forced in to a box where you just don't fit, until they do." That's because it was misapplied - it's not about fitting in. When parents use this to make their kid "normal" of course it will be like torture. This is supposed to be for getting people to a survivable level, eg non-verbal improving to "tooth hurts". If you're already to the level of getting by mostly independently, this is not the correct intervention. It's like prescribing an opioid for a minor ache. Opioids get misused and demonized, but they do have valid applications.